Intros
Deena says, "I have turned the recorder on, could you guys
re-introduce yourselves?"
Bill.Cole says, "I'm Bill Cole, and I'm a grad student
in English. Working on a diss involving MOOspace for presenting
literary texts."
][mez][ is a mezangeller, wurdsmithia.n][et][ & c.Ode wa][n][xer...
runran says, "I'm Randy Adams, a tutor at trAce and web
artist [i think]"
Deena says, "I'm Deena Larsen, and I instigated this chat
as a way to get folks who couldn't be at the ELO
Symposium to come in unreal onlineity"
Marna_S says, "I'm Marna Schwartz, and I'm working toward
an MFA in integrated electronic arts."
runran says, "It's only noon, is anyone up yet ;-)"
][mez][ says, "I dittoh B.C on that 1"
][mez][ says, "Its 6.42 AM here on a Sunday morning!!"
Deena says, "I was up tipsy until one am no sleep coffee
jitters closing in... so forgive the slow typing..."
Marna_S admires mez's dedication
][mez][ says, "Me 2 marna....i set the alarm & ini.tially
said bugga it, then lay awake there anyway;0"
Deena says, "I have Helen here too"
Bill.Cole smiles.][mez][ says, "Heya helen!!"runran
says, "Hey Helen"
Bill.Cole says, "Which Helen would that be?"
Deena says, "Hi Bill, Helen Whitehead here"
][mez][ says, "Helen Whitehead, trace boffin & hypa.textual
goddess;)"
Deena says, "And hello to everyone else...."
ELO says, "Howdy Hidy ho--" Bill.Cole says, "Howdy!
"
Editor's
note: Deena, Helen, and others changed identity through the
chat almost at will.
Bridging
the Symposium
Deena says, "It has been an exciting time here at the Symposium"
][mez][ gets all high.purr.kinked
][mez][ says, "The s.imp][ish][.osium must b thrilling
deena, any relevant dis.closures u can share with us?;)"
Bill.Cole says, "Thanks for doing that, Deena."
Deena says, "Well, we have had several exciting panels
today and more on the way..."
][mez][ says, "G.o .o.n. deena..."
Deena says, "Passing the coffee with an extra big dollop
of cream for mez" ][mez][ says, "Eheh thx d;)"
][mez][ says, "Eheh sounds like yr havin a blast;)"
Deena says, "We really are. I am in the gallery, and folks
are looking at e--lectronic works"
mez' work
Deena says, " Hi mez, people here are raving about your
work!"
][mez][ says, "Thanks Helen....any comments about it u
can chuck in here 2 start a discussion with?"
Deena says, "You and Talan are starting a new genre of
the new media canon."
Deena says, "Well, actually you've both been going a while"
Deena says, "Mez, Kate Hayles cited you in her keynote.
Twas very nice"
Changing
shifts
ELO says, "I am now going to presto change identities and
become deena while Helen becomes elo and others join in and
out of existence in real and off line and online life"
Marna_S wonders who ELO is representing
runran says, "And who might the plurality of guests be?"
][mez][ says, "Deena, how do u c this new genre as m.mergening/ent?
do u mean the mix of fictocritical l.ements within a traditional
theory purrs.pective or the ide of code.wurks?"
Deena says, "ELo is now being typed by Helen Whitehead
ta da!"
ELO says, "OK, now Deena is Deena and ELO is Helen"
Conference
summary
Deena says, "Ok here is the rundown scoop on the conference
so far:"
ELO says, "Most of the attendees are still in a panel on
Elit in the University"
Bill.Cole rubs his hands in excitement.
][mez][ says, "*list.ening*"
Deena says, "Deena is now joined by Stephanie Strickland"
][mez][ says, "How.D steph:)"
Marna_S says, "which Steph?"
Deena says, "We did wonderful readings with Stuart Moulthrop,
Caitlin Fisher, John Cayley, Talan Memmott, Rob Wittig, Judy
Malloy, Noah Wardrip Fruin, the Unknown Nick Monfort, Shelley
Jackson, and a host of others""
ELO
has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove ELO.
Deena Oh I forgot! the illustrious Stephanie Strickland did
a great reading last night too.
Helen quietly enters.
Helen arrives, like a train from Platform 9 and three-quarters
Bill.Cole says, "The readings sound cool."
Marna_S says, "That all sounds so excellent"
][mez][ says, "w o w..the whole she.bang....."
Dene
quietly enters.
Dene arrives in her golden chariot drawn by two fiery dragons.
Deena says, "Deena makes real life connections with Dene
who she SEES for the first time even though she has sat at the
conference"
][mez][ says, "Eheh hell.N;)"
Deena says, "Steph says hi to mez and all"
Marna_S says, "Is that Stephanie Strickland?"
][mez][ says, "Tell SS hey.ya;)" Deena says, "Steph
says Hi to Marna from DAC"
Dene says, "Hi" Dene says, "Aren't fleshmeets
interesting?"
Deena says, "Yest Deena is typing for Stephanie Strickland"
Steph smiles at the caps and deena's fast typos
Marna_S says, "Hi!"
][mez][ says, "Nope B.C, I don't do realtime conferences..."
Dene smiles
HT02
Bill.Cole says, "Not to change the subject, but who all's
gonna be at HT02?"
Deena says, "We are doing the hypertext writers workshop
at HT02 and will have a great crowd with Rich Higgason Stuart
and I don't know who else"
Bill.Cole says, "I might sign on for the Workshop if it
doesn't conflict with the Doctoral Consortium... "
Deena says, "The workshop is June 12. The info for HT02
is at http://www.cs.umd.edu/ht02/"
Moo
Dene says, "I teach in a MOO like this on Thursday evenings,
I love this environment to work in"
Marna_S is glad she can place me
Helen says, "Oh we're really MOO addicts..."
][mez][ gets all ideo.][dia][logical;)
Major
conference themes
Deena says, "Dene, Helen, what are the major things to
come out of this conference, do you think?"
Dene says, "I thought the notion of the canon to be a very
provocative issue"
Deena points at mez to the future of writing
][mez][ says, "X.actly deena, there's a complete con][ference][vo
lurking in the idea of new fictocritical assessment of code.wurks
and there para.lelling thru.out the e.scape....."
Dene nods at Deena
][mez][ says, "w.o.w.....thx 4 letting me no, deena...."
Helen says, "Bob Coover's keynote included Mez too"
][mez][ b.lushes ][mez][ says, ":)"
Marna_S says, "Go mez!"
Cannon
fodder
Helen says, "I must admit, in my hypertext/web writing
I have NEVER aspired to be in a canon!"
Deena hands round cannon balls for all who aspire to be shot
out of cannons.
Helen says, "I'd rather be the online equivalent of a popular
author"
Dene says, "No one aspires to a canon. It occurs"
Deena says, "Noah is here working on the New Media Reader
which may be a cannon."
Deena shoots loose cannons everywhere and spatters all with
more coffee, juice, champagne and strawberries
Criticism
on criticism
Dene says, "The discussion about criticism was also insightful"
Dene says, "Though not much got said about new ways to
critique these kinds of works"
][mez][ says, "Can u brief us on any points from the criticism
panel?"
][mez][ says, "Ahh"
Helen says, "Yes I was disappointed in the criticism discussion"
][mez][ says, "That's kinda wot i was after, comments regarding
that..oh well..."
Dene nods at Helen
Dene says, "I wanted something to be said about moving
away from traditional kinds of critical terms and theories"
Dene
says, "The one comment about that was the idea that we
are moving away from a hermeneutical approach to an "Abservational"
one"
Dene says, "Folks were more concerned about what got critiqued
rather than what one says about a work"
][mez][ says, "Abservational?"
Dene says, "Interpretative rather than observational"
Helen
says, "Yes it seemed to be mostly about teaching hypertext/new
media in a literature class or in traditional published papers"
Dene says, "But more of that kind of discussion would have
been good"
Helen says, "Sorry to be dense -- what does hermeneutical
mean?"
Dene says, "Oh sorry, a look at a text that requires interpretation"
Deena says, "Steph says hermeneutics is interpretive, like
on the Bible, you pass it out and interpret in terms of a definite
scheme. When James says this it ends up meaning all these things
down the line"
Helen
says, "The interesting question - about how much the critics
took into account the new aspects of the technology interfaces
when critiquing a work -- the panel all refused to answer!"Helen
says, "They were still talking about critiquing Afternoon"
Deena Steph has laryngitis--all misunderstandings are on deena's
side
Print
media
Deena says, "The keynote this morning by Jason Epstein
was interesting--as a publisher, he covered how traditional
print media was moving into the digital realm with print on
demand machines. I wish we had had time to get into what happens
to books you can't print out though."
Deena
says, "Yeah, we should get you mez and Talan to do the
language of the machine breaking out into the human"
][mez][ says, "I'm wurkin on a piece 2 the mo called _Awe.Top.C#
Code_..2 do with the realignment of code 7 its cult.ural re][under][wiring....."
Deena beholds a human skin which breaks apart as assembly language
pores forth from its body.
][mez][ says, "And vice-vurss.ah deena;)"
runran passes deena a bandaid
Dene
says, "He was rather positive wasn't he? I mean, he did
not offer much of the way of the problems associated with the
new technology he was describing."
Deena says, "Right, Dene he was much more concerned with
ASCII able work, no links, sound, images, or stuff that we E-lectronic
writers LOVE."
Deena says, "Steph says or beyond that the kind of installation
work we had at the technopoetry festival"
Dene
says, "I have been taking notes for every session and will
put these online for folks when I get home, if any one of you
would like to see them"
Marna_S says, "I would like to see them!" ][mez][
says, "I'd lurve 2 purr.ruse those notes D..."
Dene says, "I will post a link to them here and they will
be in full text at Nouspace"
Deena says, "Yes, Dene, please put those on the ELO site
too. Talk with Jessica, who has done a wonderful job putting
this conference together" Dene nods at Deena
][mez][ says, "Hope.fully some of these issues will b covered
there......"
Dene says, "Yes, and of course the question had to be asked"
Deena says, "Dene, please give us the URL for Nouspace"
Dene says, "Nouspace is http://www.eaze.net:7000"
Deena gets it Nouspace like the Greek
Deena
says, "Steph asks what is code 7?"
Helen says, "Mez, talk to to me about frAme re that...."
Helen says, "Not now..."
Dene
says, "I would love to see some of the videoclips posted
for folks"
Helen says, "Yes Jessica has been great"
Deena wonders if Dene can nod when Deena is behind her...
Dene says, "Just 20 seconds clips of the most insightful
comments made"
Dene says, "A sort of video "Best of""
Deena says, "Yes, Dene, the ELO site will eventually have
all the video of the speakers on the site. Not making promises
as to when"
][mez][
says, "Oops i mean t to write the tile of the gnu piece
which is _Awe.Top.C# Code_ the code 7 bit should have read
"Code & its cult.ural" etc"
Waking
up
][mez][ says, "Sorry still not fulli a.wake here..."
][mez][ says, "Helen yup i will Helen"
Dene says, "Yes and the french"
Deena throws around code as cult pins and dances with the Hari
cod-nas
Dene says, "And the slant rhyme for new"
Deena poours codes of coffee in mez' ears
][mez][ says, "Eheheh hope its helps D;)"
Dene says, "I will leave now and get some lunch"Dene
says, "It was good to see all of you"Dene says, "Bye"
][mez][
says, "_Awe.Top.C#_ = Autopsy"
Helen says, "Bye Dene -- it is hard to fit in lunch!"
Deena says, "Yeah, this is a hardship on us real lifers
as this is through lunch..."
][mez][ says, "Eek"
Deena says, "Yeah, we shoulda planned this better..."
Helen says, "Let's see if there're any bagels left fro
coffee break..."
Deena says, "So it goes. I will know for next time."
][mez][ n.jects pulses of lectronic sustenance @ all present
Bill.Cole says, "Thx, mez. I was thinking 'A wet top c'
and that wasn't getting me anywhere"
][mez][ says, ":)"
Deena
says, "This actually came about as part of a chat we had
on collaborating with the electronic artist and musicians, but
I did not get this out in time to do that..." Deena says,
"Real life interfered..."
][mez][ says, "Ehehe fair enuff B.C"
Deena Steph has gone in real life to see if there are any leftovers
for hungry moo-ers
][mez][ says, "Funni how RL has a way of doin that D:)"
Helen nod runran
Deena passes around more gallons of virtual coffee and takes
off her shakes
Deena Steph has saved Deena's life with real live food on the
table. Deena's typing slows dramatically
Back
to conference summary
Deena says, "Bill, others, what would you like to see from
this conference"
][mez][ says, "So D, any other noticeable points raised
during the panels?"
Deena says, "Yeah, Helen raised a great point about editing
in John's keynote."
][mez][ says, "Eheh"
Helen says, "What is the definition of eliterature? was
a big one"
][mez][ says, "& how was that answered H?"
Bill.Cole isn't sure what he wants to see.
runran wonders how much press the conference is getting, if
any?
Marna_S says, "I would like to see transcripts of the talks"
Deena says, "I like Stuart's epigram if the FBI did not
exist the mafia would have to invent it"
Helen says, "Epstein thought editors would always be with
us -- personally I'm not so sure"
Deena says, "Rhonda would like to say hi to mez and meet
virtually"
Deena Rhonda and mez shake hands
][mez][ says, "I'd luv 2 c this conference b.gin 2 deal
with issues of labeling& genre structure & how they
r b.ing constructed & form.ed according 2 both the creators
& the theoreticians alike..."
Helen says, "Epstein said: "Authors need editors like
people with mental illnesses need oppsychiatrists: no-one will
read work that's unreadable""
Bill.Cole says, "I can see the definition question creating
conflict -- just like the what is hypertext question."
Deena
Rhonda and Stephanie shake hands
][mez][ says, "Hi rhonda!! great 2 virtually meat u!:)"
][mez][ stretches her a.vat.ar in2 greeting position no 5 [rhonda.coded:)]
Definitions
Helen says, "MM Bob Coover demoed a hypertext that was
navigated via the scroll bars -- no links. That's not my definition
of hypertext I think"
Helen says, "Re definition of literature.... some people
are saying that writers like us would be better off in visual
arts/ digital arts / design / media arts depts, rather than
English/literarure"
Bill.Cole says, "Labeling is interesting and can be useful.
But it often manages to be an exercise in erecting fences. *This*
is e-lit, but *that* is not."
Helen says, "I was speaking to Bob Kendall about the way
they define eliterature for the ELO Directory --"
][mez][ says, "It's difficult 2 assess wot makes up a hypa.txt
when the primary de][a][finition is still so broad...not that
i'm add.vocating packaged labelling eye.ther....."
Helen says, "It includes sound recordings of peotry for
example... is that eliterature? Or just an extension of trad
lit?"
][mez][ says, "Ah.greed, B.C."
Bill.Cole says, "I found a pleasing defn of HT in, of all
places, an O'Reilly book (Info Architecture for the WWW). It
said HT is an organizational scheme, along with hierarchies
and databases."
Deena
introduces the moo to newbies
Deena Christine says Hi all
Deena says, "Rhonda says she is an information architect
and recognizes this "
Helen says, "An organizational scheme for fiction or poetry
or whatever... it works, but I think creatively there's more
to the definition"
][mez][ says, "Heya christine"
][mez][ says, "Yes Helen, agreed, though the notion of
complete structure in terms of organ.isation is n.tri.gui.ng..."
Deena says, "we have heard so many definitions of ht"
No
literature
Deena says, "What i found interesting was the aversion
to Literature as a term."
Deena says, "Are we lit? if not the Electronic LITERATURE
org has to change the name"
runran says, "I used to be a visual artist, i used to be
a writer, now i'm a hypersomethingorother ..."
][mez][ says, "As in e.literature b.ing a slovenly term
in re:gards to the n.clusion of a traditional term cobbled on|in2
a contemp 1?"
elo2
arrives.elo2 says, "Test "Bill.Cole says, "Hi
Elo2. Loud and clear."
Helen says, "At trace we are a WRITING centre -- we do
avoid the term literature to avoid elitism, but it depends what
you are aiming at -- ELO wants to promote eliterature in a different
weway, and the word maybe helps that"
Bill.Cole says, "I think there's -- often justified --
distrust of English/Lit people 'colonizing' new media."
runran says, "Good point bill"
Marna_S
says, "What I like about hypertext, in general, is that
the work doesn't HAVE to fit a word, or words in particular"
Helen says, "As a scientist I find it odd to be lumped
in with English Dept people just because I write"
elo2 says, "Hmmmm"
][mez][ says, "wot do u mean by colon.ising B.C?"
Marna_S
wonders who elo2 is elo2 says, "Margie is elo2" Marna_S
says, "Hi Margie!" ][mez][ says, "Heya margie,
hows trix there?;)"
Deena says, "who is surreal guest? what do you do?"
Deena says, "Deena is replaced by chritina for moment"
Bill.Cole
says, "Mez, lit types have been accused of taking over
other disciplines -- like film -- and forcing their own frameworks
on them"
][mez][ says, "This scrabble.ing 2 best-fit net.wurk/elit/HT
produce in2 acceptably d.fined theory/academe drenched areas
is fairly scrappish..."
][mez][ says, "Ahh yes B.C the n.fmaous _discourse_ &
everything being _texts_ etc....."
Operating
in a pair of dimes
Bill.Cole says, "Right, mez. Now, I'm a 'lit type' myself,
and think there can be a value to looking at many things in
literary terms. But I understand the objection. Especially since
the general conservatism of academic disciplines tends to stifle
new approaches to anything."
][mez][ says, "Yup, spot.on.B.C."
elo2 says, "mez, wish you were here!" elo2 says, "You
have been much the subject here!"
][mez][ goes 4 her 2nd b.lush;
elo2 says, "Yes indeed, the whole set of issues are being
disucssed that your work involves"
][mez][ says, "X.cellent margie, thats 1 of the reasons
y i create wot i do....the discussion/formulation carry-ova...."
][mez][
says, "Yes B>C, have had simi][an[lar x.periences here
as well...how do u deal with that manifest conservatism when
it con.fronts u?"
Marna_S
says, "There is something to be said for operating within
a paradigm"
Bill.Cole says, "Well, some of that is from recent experience
being frustrated by one such conservative dept."
][mez][ says, "Thx margie...hope.fulli my wurks have pro.voked
some n.teresting disc.ussion......"
][mez][ says, "Marna, can u e.laborate on that?"
elo2 says, ""Marna, are we really operating in a paradigm?
what does that mean?"
Getting
to the outside
Bill.Cole says, "My reaction was to quit my job. Not exactly
constructive, I fear."
Marna_S says, "I don't think we are operating in a paradigm,
per se"
elo2 says, "Bill, we had a great discussion about how the
university can play a role in elit--alan Liu has a wonderful
new toy that will categorize works for students and help you
get back to the paths and links you want to teach for a hypertext
elit work"
Marna_S says, "For "Us" it's more like a context"
Helen says, "Bill that was radical!"
elo2 says, "wonders why bill quit his job, thinks she missed
something..."
][mez][ says, "w.o.w...that's a big, add.mirable leap B.C:)
"
elo2 Comforts bill and hopes he gets in on a better place
Helen says, "My mother always taught me -- to be subversive
from the indie..."
Helen says, "Inside"
elo2 Gets helen a race car so she can race the Indie 500
elo2 from the inside
Helen says, "They won't listen to us if we're outside the
universities, we have to get in there somehow and work from
within"
Marna_S says, "B/c there is all kinds of tech development
and media experimentation occurring. It's an exciting time"
][mez][ says, "Eheh"
Bill.Cole says, "Well, it was a longer and more complicated
story than that, and things are OK at the moment. "
Helen says, "Whereabouts are you Bill?"
Bill.Cole says, "I'm in Columbus OH, Helen. Guess what
university it was ;)"
][mez][
says, "Margie that alan lui toy sounds n.teresting, is
it accessible via the web?"
elo2 Deena and Helen are complaining in real life and dramatizing
that the outreach to the world in these chats is being pushed
to the outside as everyone has fled for lunch
Helen
says, "Marna, that sounds positive, tell us more?"
elo2 says, "They are not listening to people on the outside,
that is FOR SURE helen!"
elo2 Cheers helen and bill and Marna and mez and randy and all
of us on the outside
runran says, "I try very hard to create work that can be
enjoyed by non-writers, non-artists, non-academics ..."
][mez][ says, "U succeed 2, runran, its 1 of the many things
i admire about yr work & yr work practice][s][..."
elo2 shifts and shimmers in transcending identities
Funding
Deena says, "Yells out As a funder, I am wondering how
you can reach your work to a wider audience?"
Bill.Cole says, "I agree that unis CAN play a role. But
you need some really visionary people who are willing to take
chances. Too many academics are concerned with keeping a low
profile until tenure. "
][mez][ says, "Dittoh margie;)"
elo2 says, "Mez, I wish we could get a grant structure
in place for that ratified financial gain"
][mez][ says, "Me 2!!"
Our
own time
elo2 says, "Mez, what is the role of unis in australia
in digital media and lit?"
elo2 says, "ELo2 is deena now, actually"
elo2 says, "There are a lot of cool visionaries here, Bill.
I wish you were here to talk with Alan, and Noah is doing some
neat stuff at Brown."
Helen says, "But Alan Liu was saying, he had to create
the Voice
of the Shuttle on his own time, on top of teaching work
and "Real" research."
elo2
says, "Stuart and Nancy are starting a new media department
at University of Maryland"
Bill.Cole says, "Stuart and Nancy's program is VERY cool.
I talked with them about it in Aarhus last summer."
elo2 says, "Bill, do you know Rich Higgason who is also
in Ohio?"
Bill.Cole says, "No, Margie. Don't know Rich. What department
is he in?"
Helen says, "Yet at least elit / new media is on the agenda
in the US - in the UK it isn't taught anywhere at all"
elo2 says, "Yes, helen, exactly, all of us visionaries
are on our own time..."
On
the margins
][mez][ says, "Margie>>the fact of digital/net.wurking
parameters?realities is starting 2 filter down in the academic
system, but its a s.l.o.w go, & those who r pushing 4 it
r often marginalised..."
elo2 says, "Mez, how are they marginalized in Aus?"
Marna_S says, "At some point we will probably (hopefully?)
come to a place where there is a means of expression that just
works AMAZINGLY well. Then people will probably begin to create
content within that paradigm for a while. It's happened with
different forms of media, as well as styles within those media.
and it will happen again and again"
Mixing
bbly arrives. elo2 hugs bill bly. This is deena elo2 says, "Bill,
introduce yourself for the record, if you would--I have your
cd here, was bringing it for you to sign.."
bbly says, "Hi, bbly here, thanks for the invite"
elo2 says, "What is interesting here in real life is that
we have the old gang here and a lot of new faces as well. But
it is hard to get the two together. "I think we see each
other so rarely, and we have to talk so we inadvertently shut
out the new would be visionaries. Sue Thomas said that at Incubation,
they mix up the tables for lunch so you HAVe to sit with someone
you don't know...Wish that were the case here."
Helen says, "Yes we could do with something ACTIVE to get
the groups mixing"
Marna_S says, "That's unfortunate"
elo2 says, "But the panels do help present what these visionaries
are doing"
Teaching
content and winning paradigms
][mez][ says, "Margie>> those who r trying 2 establish
actual teaching content in such a way as 2 reflect the growing
genres that make up so-termed _new media_ find it difficult
2 have established as a wurkable teachable arena without b.ing
subsumed in2 previous maintained areas [lit/design etc]..."
Helen says, "Marna do you have any prediction about what
paradigm might win out?"
elo2 says, "Mez, how are australian unis carving out space
for other growing genres and other interdisciplinary areas like
computer physics, etc.?"
New
faces
elo2 says, "Yes, all, how do we get new faces to get into
the field?"
elo2 says, "What is in it for them?"
Helen says, "I was talking to a couple of young things
in the coffee shop last night -- they are bright and capable,
and did a degree in interactive multimedia and want to do new
media writing -- but how can we encourage them what to do next
when they have to also make a living?"
elo2 says, "Bill, we have had a great talk here at ELO
about the place of electronic lit and media in universities.
But it boils down to visionaries like Loss and Alan Liu spending
huge amounts of time on the edges and then finally getting recognized"
Marna_S says, "I think that one paradigm that has won out,
in the sense that it seems to be used more and more often, is
the hyperlink fiction. A la the Unknown"
Helen says, "Yes Marna, hypertext like that is liked around
here"
elo2 says, "Funny, Marna, folks here have been characterizing
heavily linked text as the first age of hypertext and now we
are in the second with images, sound, etc taking center stage.
"
][mez][ says, "Thru research leanings, mostly...there is
a restructure push @ present that has unis c][g][lamo.ring 2
realign with the gnu business/eco rationalism d.fined educative
push...it sux, truly....there is no place here for code.wurk
teaching niches as it isn't proven 2 hold any type of ratified
financial gain [which is y it is so often lumped in2 design
or lit]..."
Helen says, "Flash Poetry was another one Rita Raley mentioned
-- that's going to stick around"
elo2 says, "Not sure I agree with that myself, I think
there is a lot more involved in linking."
Marna_S says, "I think that the "First age" format
is alot more accessible as far as "Joe public" wanting
to become "Joe creator"
Playing
games
Bill.Cole
says, "The 'ludology'/Game Studies movement (Aarseth et
al.) is also gaining some steam."
][mez][ says, "Can u tell us more about that B.C?[n.terested]"
Bill.Cole says, "I don't know that much about it. But Espen
Aarseth at Bergen is involved. It seems to have emerged from
the Digital Arts and Culture conferences he organized. Now there
is a GameStudies.org
and some other stuff. "
Helen says, ""Helen is now both Helen and Julianne
Chatelain - sorry we don't have more machines here and are sharing.""
elo2 says, "Deena is watching someone go through e:electron
so is distractified"
Marna_S says, "welcome Julianne" ][mez][ says, "How.d
Julianne"
Helen says, "Speaking of gamestudies, Julianne also recommends
Gonzalo Frasca's ludology.org"
Bill.Cole says, "Although, Helen, video games predate traditional
node-link HTs by a good margin. "
Helen says, "][mez][ it's an honor!!"
][mez][ says, "Selectparks.net r doing some great stuff
around games & theory...."
][mez][ says, "Thx julianne! same here! tell us a bit about
yrself..."
Flash
in the pan
elo2
says, "One of the interesting threads was obsolences--art
is obsolete in 3-5 years. Flash and other corporate stuff---will
that still be here? We need to distinguish between obsolete
and unreadable because the computer is gone and flash is gone"
elo2 says, ""
][mez][ says, "Ooh margie, big qs ..."
elo2 says, "But one of the suggested criteria was to judge
on how works USE the technology available"
Bill.Cole says, "Old computer formats CAN be kept current.
Take the MAME application, which plays old arcade games on new
personal computers. (Go, Robotron!)"
Bill.Cole says, "Some hacker could probably put together
an emulator -- if there was interest. "
Helen says, "Julianne's gossip from NKHayles' keynote yesterday:
Kate suggested critics should evaluate a work in terms of its
original platform and not diss older works simply because their
platforms are old. she specifically didn't mention the d-d dissing
of BBly's We Descend but I thought it was a subtext and I wanted
to tell you about it Bill.."
elo2 Nothing is off topic, Deena yells back at Juliane who is
yelling at Helen that it is off color that oh maybe this is
in Deena's vivid imagination
elo2 i-mage -in A tion
runran says, "The flash player plugin will one day be on
same shelf as the 8 track cassette player ... reminds me of
the polish artist [forget his name] who did chalk drawings ...
he timed himself with a stop watch ... then erased the drawing
and announced how long his art lasted ..."
][mez][ says, "Runran its a bit like andy goldsworthy &
his art production/processes...."
elo2 says, "Mez, can you give the URLs and info on Andy
Goldsworthy?"
Helen says, "Helen says Sue Thomas has all the info on
Andy if you need it."
][mez][ says, "Nope sorry deena, he's a well-known sculptor...realtime
based... "
][mez][ says, "Eheheh"
elo2 b.lush.es too and has another drink on realtime sculptures
Conference calls
elo2 says, "Mez, all, how can we get more visionaries and
more finances? How do we get people more involved?"
Marna_S says, "Being a grad student, I would like to suggest,
on behalf of all students, a scholarship/fellowship for attending
conferences"
elo2 says, "ELO 2 is still Deena"
Helen says, "Hello Marna I think that idea is thrilling"
][mez][ says, "I'm not really sure how 2 n.courage a more
visionary-based approach in terms of institutions...it would
take a radical realignment of cultural standards etc....."
elo2 says, "Jaishree says hi to all you out there in unreal
internet land"
elo2 says, "Yes, we should be able to do that and have
people paid for giving papers..."
][mez][ says, "Oops sorry thought elo2 was margie [3rd
b.lush 4 2day;0]"
elo2 says, "Bill, what about intermedia and other dead
works?"
][mez][ says, "How.D jaishree"
elo2 changes herself in shimmering identities which are completely
unreadable and may be obsolete
][mez][ says, ":)"
Marna_S says, "I think so, too. But what can we do to make
that happen? Suggest elo or other orgs include that in their
grant proposals?"
][mez][ says, "Marna, i'd go 4 the x.tebded use of the
actually medium in2 the creation of conferences on an infrastructural
lvl...get virtual conferences happening!!"
][mez][ says, "OOPS rewire that last sentence in2 "X.tended
use of the actual medium"...[dang fingers] "
elo2 says, "Yes, we need to suggest it in grant proposals.
but maybe this goes back to the marginalizing questions--how
do e get this in the forefront so it IS funded?"
Marna_S says, "That's a great idea, mez"
elo2 Julianne claps
elo2 Deena runs around pouring coffee in everyone's ears
The housekeeper arrives to remove bbly. elo2 says, "We
lost Bill\"
elo2 says, "Mez, how would that work practically? How can
we embed the medium in the practice?"
elo2 Hands round medium sized practice sessions and more coffee
for all
Cohesive
irons
Helen says, "& ][mez]['s work was a big part of NKH's
talk too - but you probably knew that : ))"
elo2 says, "I don't see any type"
elo2 says, "Are we offline?"
elo2 is offline and working on off sleep
Marna_S is appreciating the hot coffee in cold upstate NY
Helen says, "No"
][mez][ says, "By actually n.couraging the use of the medium
as a cohesive n.viron, not 1 marginalized in the background
[a bit like this] as an off-shoot of realtime functioning....that's
y i c so many of the practical problems arising there, such
as cohesion around physically-based standards [pre-set personas
etc]... "
elo2 says, "Kate just came in and claps for Mez"
elo2 Kate Hayles claps for MEZ
][mez][ b.lushes again;0
][mez][ says, "Thx kate, and thx 4 the n.clusion..."
elo2 says, "Kate thanks mez"
][mez][ says, "..& thx 2 u Kate!!I'd luv a copy of
the transcript of yr keynote...."
][mez][ says, ".if there is 1 that is;)"
Electronic
death and embedding
elo2 says, "Margie is not sure how this works in the virtual
world and wants to know if she should die, would deena die too?"
Marna_S says, "Hi Kate! Wish I could have heard your keynote."
elo2 says, "Margie is right here sleeping beside me"
Bill.Cole says, "On embedding the medium: partly be not
being afraid or apologetic about using it. E.g., in writing
classes, many teachers are afraid of assigning web page assignments
because it's 'too advanced.' Yet I know basic/remedial writing
teachers who do it all the time with great success. We can be
too protective of our students."
][mez][ says, "Depends on yr definition of death..is it
ego based or electronically fixated?"
Helen says, "More gossip: tension felt between people whose
work is mostly page focused and those whose work is performative
and time based (Cayley, Montfort) - the latter doing a good
job of holding up their point of view."
][mez][ says, ":)"
elo2 says, "Yeah there is an undercurrent here that text
is somehow obsolete, which bothers me..."
][mez][ says, "Helen, yup, i can m.magine that ][wo][manifest][er][ing..."
elo2 says, "How do we embed the medium in writing teachers?"
Helen says, "Deena yells out OH GOD I DIDN'T MEAN THAT"
Bill.Cole agrees with elo2.
elo2 Does not want to physically embed the medium in the teacher,
she just wants to embed it in the teaching and oh never mind
Helen says, "The really erudite stuff coming from "Helen"
is Julianne...."
][mez][ says, "Eheh deena...yr cute when yr a tad pished;0)"
elo2 thinks that she is not just a tad pished, but pushed pished
over the edge...
elo2 needs sleep more than any lovely elit theory
elo2 Thinks Julianne and Helen make great real time collaborators
][mez][ says, "OOPS sorry i meant julianne;)"
elo2 says, "Well, the time has flown..."
elo2 Deena throws around more flying clocks than anyone needs
Helen says, "DEATH = 'publishing' - that's why I was unable
to finish any work until I thought I was dying. (I am dying
but I still don't know when but somehow I can finish work now
- will write you all offline - thanks Helen and all"
Bill.Cole ducks for cover.
elo2 covers bill with flying clocks and minutes
Bill.Cole says, "Ouch."
elo2 But wonders about Julianne's dying and vows to talk to
her about that.
webliteracy
elo2
says, "This wasn't a fair representation of the conference,
but there are so many issues to cover (not I sue, mez, issues..?"
elo2 Calls for last thoughts and pushes the obligatory parting
round of Genius/Guinness
Marna_S says, "I think that web literacy will become more
and more frequent until it is a necessary component of writing
classes"
Bill.Cole says, "Of course, Marna. But it can be tough
to wait for evolutionary change. And it can be tough to keep
going back to square one in arguing for any deviation from traditional
forms."
elo2 says, "Marna, I agree! we need to necessify the medium!"
Bill.Cole is sorry to sound so cynical, but he's had some bad
experiences....
][mez][
says, "I'm just glad u ran this deena, it's more than necessary
... thanks 4 taking the time & big a big phat How.D 2 all
there...."
][mez][ says, "Ahh, well have a drink or 2, u d.serve it;)"
Helen says, "OK ][mez][ looking forward to it"
Helen says, "I'm just dying like we all all are!! not to
worry"
][mez][ says, "Opps GIVE a big phat hello, obviously..."
Helen says, "Is your email working again mez?"
elo2 says, "Wes just waltzed in and says hi to bill, marna,
mez and hugs everyone"
][mez][ says, "Doesn't matter, i want u 2 contact me julianne
if that's ok....u're a mez-wave.lengther by the timbre of it....;)"
Helen says, "we should stop -- we haven't left this airless
place and have three more panels this afternoon....."
elo2 says, "The real lifers go away for the next session."
elo2 says, "Thank you ALL so much for coming!"
elo2
says, "We will have more online conferences!"
Bill.Cole says, "Hi, Wes"
Helen says, "Bill -- would love tot alk with your some
other time.. (Helen)"
][mez][ says, "Yes helen, should be ok now [email that
is]..."
Marna_S says, "Let's talk more, Bill"
Helen says, "Bye all..."
Marna_S says, "Thank you to the rl'ers who made time to
fill us in a little!"
][mez][ .wavs good.bye 2 all n sun.dr][ied][y
Bill.Cole says, "I'd love to continue the conversations
off-line. My email is bill@donutage.org. And I will be at HT02
in College Park this summer."
Marna_S says, "Have a great rest of conference!"
][mez][ thxs all
Bill.Cole says, "It's been fun, everybody."
Helen says, "And everyone come to Incubation2 as well!"
runran says, "Have a great dinner"
Helen says, "!5-17th July in Nottingham UK -- continue
the discussion"
Do
you like this stuff?
runran
says, "Do you enjoy hypertext/hyperfiction/hypermedia?"
Marna_S says, "Immensely. I think that there's something
very potentially intoxicating about the medium"
Marna_S says, "In creation, as well as utility"
runran says, "And quite addictive, once one gets going,
i can barely find my pen anymore ;-)"
Marna_S says, "It's just often difficult to tell whether
one's idea (i.e., my idea) is good enough, worth pursuing"
runran says, "That's something all artists face"
Marna_S says, "As difficult as it is to stop, it is as
difficult, sometimes, to start"
Marna_S says, "Yeah. How do you face it? "
runran says, "The difficulty, for traditional artists,
is learning to program, which is becoming more and more necessary"
runran says, "I was a writer and a visual artist and found
a reluctance on the part of granting agencies and editors to
accept that i could do both, so the web is a godsend"
Marna_S says, "That's true!"
Taking
off
][mez][
says, "B.C x.pect n email from me;)"
Helen says, "Bye "
Bill.Cole says, "Ciao, belli!"
][mez][ says, "N.deed Helen:)"
][mez][ says, "Take care all;)"
Helen says, "Kate Pullinger is here to take over from me..."
Bill.Cole says, "Sure, mez. looking forward."
runran says, "Hello kate"
Helen says, "Hi Randy."
Helen says, "It's cool and cloudy in LA."
][mez][ has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove ][mez][.
runran says, "Here too"
Helen says, ""Anything interesting in this MOO?""
runran says, "I think everyone is leaving now"
Marna_S says, "It's sunny here in Troy, but I am freezing"
Helen says, ""I guess so. Oh well. I'll send you a
mail from the UK next week. Bye Randy."
Marna_S says, "what are your impressions from the conference?"
Helen says, "ACTION Kate waves good-bye/"
elo2 has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove elo2.
runran says, "I see you logged into the course"
runran says, "Oops, she's gone"
Helen says, ""Which course?""
Marna_S shrugs
runran says, "The tutorial space"
Helen says, ""Nope, not me!!""
Helen says, "Maybe Catherine Gillam was checking it out
or something?"
runran says, "Yes, i guess so"
runran says, "Sorry marna, we're doing idle chit chat"
Helen says, ""Everybody is gone, so I really will
say bye.""
Helen has disconnected.
runran says, "That's it marna, just us left"
Marna_S says, "Where are you? What do you do?"
runran says, "I'm on Vancouver island, I teach basic web
design for the trAce writing school ... and i am a web artist
[I guess]"
runran says, "Http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/studio/radams/"
Marna_S says, "Neat. I am at RPI, working on an MFA in
electronic arts. Still filling the basics, though"
runran says, "what is your focus re:electronic arts"
Marna_S says, "If I had to say one, it's prob'ly be word-related"
The housekeeper arrives to cart Helen off to bed.
Marna_S says, "Text"
Marna_S shrugs
Marna_S
resigning to prospect of imminent departure
Marna_S says, "Nice talking with you"
runran says, "Bye marna"
