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Chat Transcript: May 6th 2001
The trAce Online Writing School

Sunday May 6th (in LinguaMOO)
This transcript produced by Deena Larsen

Straight to log missing introduction

Celebrate trAce Online Writing School! Helen Whitehead, Alan Sondheim, Talan Memmott, Sue Thomas, and other writers and teachers at trAce. Now you can take writing courses online and learn from the best! The trAce Online Writing School, opening June 2001, will offer online tuition in a range of writing and web-related areas. Courses will include web-based media, hypertext, and other new media topics as well as conventional topics such as fiction, poetry and writing for children. Learn at your own pace, or study intensively with some of the best-known writers working on the web today. Join our chat to discuss these classes, suggest courses, and find more ways to participate in this wonderful online writing community.

--Session Start: Sun May 06 20:59:31 2001

talanM says, "Hey Randy... Looking forward to the work for BeeHive!"

R_Adams says, "It's coming slow but sure Talan."

Alan_Sondheim says, "Can anyone let us know about the registration?

Sue_Thomas says, "Alan - registration is also slow but sure :)"

Deena says, "Hi Alan, welcome to Florida!"

Alan_Sondheim says, ":-)"

Alan_Sondheim says, "Noticed that "Deena... the good old MOO days :-)

Deena passes around cookies and punch and registration cards

talanM says, "Hey Deena --- the workshop was a blast!"

Deena says, "Talan, it was so great to have you there! It was a lot of fun! Talan and I just got finished with DAC, and ALan and I went to EPoetry. Massively great conferences both of these."

Helen says, "Yes, shall we officially start, Sue?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Fine."

Deena says, "Helen, Sue, could you tell us about the writing school program?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Yep, Helen has something worked out I think."

Margaret says, "Helen I hope that is how you will sleep tonight."

Alan_Sondheim says, "Are we expecting prospective students here as well?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Alan, we hope to get prospective students to the chat, yes."

Helen says, "Can you tell us why trAce started a writing school, Sue?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Actually should we hang on a bit?"

Helen says, "See if we get any students...."

Sue_Thomas says, "As Alan points out, there are only a few here yet."

Deena says, "I advertised the chat on online writing groups and colleges...for 4 pm EST as usual. Are we all on the right time zone??"

Deena checks her watches.

Helen says, "If you're right now, yes!"

Alan_Sondheim says, "The odds are against us ... we're the usual group, which is actually quite nice! I feel I know all of you..."

Deena passes around more guiness.

Alan_Sondheim passes out, please send some black tea at the least."

Sue_Thomas says, "Arg!"

Sue_Thomas goes blind with the yellow."

Alan_Sondheim says, "u ment?"

Margaret says, "Thanks Deena."

Deena hands round black tea and earl grey with cream.

Alan_Sondheim says, "O this is the white album..."

Alan_Sondheim says, "I'm still fascinated w/ writing in white..."

Sue_Thomas says, "Oh silly me, that was my own settings - thought it was yours!"

Editor's note: Alan and Sue are playing with colored text, which I won't replicate in the log.

talanM says, "White text on white.... growing darker with emphasis..."

Alan_Sondheim says, "It was yelled, screamed... it was desperate... a cry for help..."

Deena says, "Are you guys messing with font colors? I see black on white."

Alan_Sondheim says, "Messing? no, creative? yes!"

Alan_Sondheim says, "O no now you don't..."

Helen says, "10 you can get font colors."

Alan_Sondheim says, "1,including white..."

Helen says, "on the pc anyway it's CTRL-K."

Marna_Schwartz is now known as Marna."

Sue_Thomas says, "Hi Marna."

Deena says, "Welcome Marna! We are going to talk about the trAce Writing School."

Margaret says, "Helen, I can't read what you said - that pale blue on white."

talanM says, "Hey...Marna."

Ev says, "No way to make the white come up here to see what's said."

Sue_Thomas says, "Sally is this your first visit to the chat?"

Sally says, "No I've been before a few times Sue."

Sue_Thomas says, "Ah ok Sally - I don't always manage to get here."

Sally says, "Me neither :)"

Sue_Thomas says, "Marna - where are you now?"

Marna says, "Hi Alan!"

Ev says, "Alan....ah...a ghost of an echo of a whisper"

Marna says, "I am back in Binghamton, suffering a crippling case of senioritis..."

Deena echos the getting back to reality blues.

Alan_Sondheim says, "1/me echoed into nonexistence..."

Deena says, "Do we have any new folks tonight, who are not familiar with trAce ?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Everyone, we should maybe say that the last time Marna, Talan and I met it was at dinner in Providence last week."

talanM says, "Yes, a sushi-fandango of sorts... :)"

Deena says, "DAC was an incredible conference! I think the trAce writing school will help carry that energy."

Marna says, "I agree."

Helen says, "Why don't we officially start then? People may drop in as we go."

Deena says, "Yes, Sue, Helen, could you tell us about the trAce Online Writing School? What does it offer?"

talanM says, "Deena -- perhaps the trAce Online Writing School should be dispatched to the workshop attendees -- if it has not already gone out..."

Sue_Thomas says, "Talan, that would be good."

talanM says, "I did talk about it... but just as a reminder..."

Deena says, "Good plan Talan, I will dispatch it."

Helen says, "Not all of us could get to DAC and the other conferences... but an online writing school should be more inclusive... or is it? That's the idea though, isn't it Sue?"

Deena says, "Online writing schools offer many advantages. A synchronous talking fits schedules and lifestyles, yet we can still communicate."

Sue_Thomas says, "Yes, OK, I 'll say a few words about it now. Well, I'll say why we decided to do it, first of all. We have been doing some research into what people wanted from us. And it showed that not only do people want online writing courses, but they also were expecting trAce to provide them. We seemed to offer a natural focus for that kind of activity. Secondly,we are conscious of a growing international community of people working both in new media writing... And also in conventional writing, but using the web to connect and collaborate."

Sue_Thomas says, "The school will do 2 things in that regard: 1. it will allow these new web-based practitioners to go some small way towards making an income from the web...And as we know this is not easy at the moment."

Sue_Thomas says, "And 2. it will allow people to actively learn from those practitioners, not just by picking things up in a casual way, but via planned courses."

Sue_Thomas says, "So, that's the background to why we decided the school was a viable way for us to go. Any questions on that?"

Deena says, "I think this is a wonderful way to build community."

Sue_Thomas says, "I think so too - it raises up the engagement a notch."

Alan_Sondheim says, "Just a comment, that new media tends to go into all sorts of areas; if the writing program does expand, it would eventually involve streaming media etc. as well - there's no end to this..."

Deena says, "Good point Alan. And along with that, we need courses on how to use streaming media not just for writing but for business, etc."

Helen_Whitehead says, "True, Alan."

Margaret says, "Why WebCT in particular?" Alan_Sondheim says, "Yes, why WebCT?"

Sue_Thomas says, "We chose WebCT because it offers an environment which we can customise."

talanM says, "I think we should let Sue answers these... And hold questions for a moment..."

Sue_Thomas says, "It was a choice between WebCT and blackboard. And WebCT is more manageable we decided."

Alan_Sondheim says, "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Sue_Thomas says, "Though neither have been very easy! But they have very good admin tools for staff and students."

Deena sympathises "None of the web tools seem easy."

Helen_Whitehead says, "If we are teaching, we want to do it properly, not just informally, and incorporate evaluation and possibilities for assessment as well as an environment in which we could create a learning community."

Sue_Thomas says, "Frankly, we didn't feel that a simple bbs interface was professional enough."

Alan_Sondheim says, "I do have questions about professionalism and "Properly"In regard to creative work, both online and off."

Margaret says, "Evaluation and Assessment worry me, Sue."

Deena says, "How large will the classes be? How long will they run?"

Sue_Thomas says, "length - all are currently 6 weeks, though this will evolve and change."

Sue_Thomas says, "Size - minimum of 4 to run, maximum in consultation with each tutor."

Deena says, "Alan wondered about the extent of courses--that this could lead to many more things on the course agenda."

Deena says, "How can people find out about the courses and sign up?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Can I make a suggestion about questions? This chat is for potential students. Questions more relevant to tutors should be discussed at another time I think."

Margaret says, "Sorry, Sue."

Sue_Thomas says, "Does that make sense?"

Alan_Sondheim says, "Yes"

Deena says, "Actually, my question was as a student, how would I find out about the course?"

Sue_Thomas says, "You would find out by visiting our website at trAce Online Writing School."

Deena says, "Alan, all, I think there are a lot of issues around teaching writing no matter what that the school will have to engage in... maybe we can hold these thoughts?"

Helen_Whitehead says, "Evaluation means finding out if the courses are working, if the students are getting what they wanted. You can't avoid evaluation."

Sue_Thomas says, "Shall I say something about evaluation and assessment and how they will work?"

Deena says, "Yes, Sue, please do :)"

Ev says, "Yes, please."

Helen_Whitehead says, "Yes go ahead -- and how it's of benefit to the student."

Margaret says, "Speaking as a student, Sue, assessment would worry me."

Sue_Thomas says, "First, evaluation: we acknowledge that this a pilot year and that we are working in a new environment...Some of our tutors have worked online before.. But for many it will be new. Ditto students. And ditto, frankly, the administrators. So we need to evaluate what we do at every step to enable us to learn and improve. This means that there will be constant evaluation at every level. Mostly by surveys etc. But WebCT also allows us to measure attendance so we can see, for example, if students are not logging on - and then we can follow up to see if they need extra support in some way."

Sally says, "Could you tell us more about WebCT?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Yes I 'll say more about WebCT but first a word about assessment."

Sally says, "Sure :)"

Sue_Thomas says, "These courses are currently not for credit so it is not possible to 'fail.' Later, when they are for credit, it will be a different matter, of course."

Helen_Whitehead says, "But there will probably always be a mixture of courses for credit and courses for personal development."

Sue_Thomas says, "What we mean by assessment in the current context is feedback. "Accompanying tasks built into the learning."

Margaret says, "That's OK."

Sue_Thomas says, "Margaret, would you like to say what worries you about it?"

talanM says, "Sue, yes -- I am thinking of assessment as something like a studio art course."

Helen_Whitehead says, "It's no good if a student doesn't feel their writing is benefiting from the course."

Sue_Thomas says, "Yes Talan - me too."

Helen_Whitehead says, "How does that work Talan?"

Margaret says, "I was worried about some sort of scoring system for assessment. I want people to feel they are learning for themselves not to measure up to other people's expectations."

talanM says, "Assessment is based on activity of the student... evaluation is constructive... critiques, and suggestions."

Sue_Thomas says, "Alan would you like to say something about assessment too?"

Alan_Sondheim says, "I'm not sure what to say about this. I feel the Webct will also need assessment - I'm still working on how to teach through/around it. A lot of creative teaching is free-form of course and I'd hate that to be lost here."

Deena says, "Sue, I think we have some teachers here, Talan, Alan, and Margaret, as well as students. The constant feedback will be very valuable for teachers and students to improve the system. Is the writing school working with other universities who are doing online courses?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Deena,not at present, though we will be working with other organisations and may host courses for them."

Deena says, "Margaret, I think that the whole purpose in trAce is to build a writer community, and learning for learning's sake should play a large role, I agree."

Alan_Sondheim says, "The community aspect is very important!"

Sue_Thomas says, "I think there's a lot of scope for freeform thinking in WebCT - it's actually very enabling."

Deena says, "What is the trAce philosophy and approach to learning?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Deena.. Let me say something about our 'role model.'"

Sue_Thomas says, "English writers here may know of the Arvon Foundation...started in the 50s. The idea of Arvon has always been that 16 writers, first come first served, live and work together with 2 professional writers for a week in a remote place. This is quite common in the usa - the retreat idea - but less common in the UK... It's a question of writers living and working and learning together."

Margaret says, "Thanks Deena."

Sue_Thomas says, "There is no entry requirement beyond age - 18+. And no examination. And no credit. It is very highly respected. And it works on contact - similar again to Talan's studio model."

Helen_Whitehead says, "Tutors very proud of teaching there."

Sue_Thomas says, "We want to create that same kind of atmosphere here."

Alan_Sondheim says, "It sounds a bit like Black Mountain, which would be close to the way I approach things."

Deena says, "Sounds like a great place to learn both to write and to live."

Sue_Thomas says, "And indeed we have already had it with Alan's residency, and the other residencies. Now...a problem is that some people want 'more'."

Deena says, "I like the idea of creating a community like that online. Will there be places for people to talk outside of classes?"

Sue_Thomas says, "So we have to show that we will offer credit and all kinds of things..And we will...But the idea is that the essence is contact and exchange."

Deena says, "What do you mean by people wanting more? Wanting more credit for courses?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Deena we have a common workshop which Alan will host...A bit like the usa idea of The Commons."

Deena says, "What will be in the workshop?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Alan will host the first 3 months - want to talk about that, Alan?"

Alan_Sondheim says, "It would also be great eventually to have a Commons which no one will host, which will be an open playing field. I'm not sure how this will play out. I'm a facilitator and I would react at least initially to what other people want."

Helen_Whitehead says, "A place for students to meet and discuss and exchange ideas and writing."

Deena says, "And I am sure that the Sunday chats will provide some time for people to get together as well."

Sue_Thomas says, "There will be one chat a week. Inside the commons to use a MOO space for that, come in and build, play, etc.."

Deena says, "Will the chat be limited to students?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Yes."

Margaret says, "Worldwide?"

Alan_Sondheim says, "It would be on a week by week basis. But a facilitator might also formalize things a bit - what about a purely social space, frivolous space? I wonder if down the road, if we wouldn't want."

Helen_Whitehead says, "They can of course also join us here on Sundays."

Sue_Thomas says, "Margaret when we get huge and have timezone problems we will probably get more hosts for the commons."

Helen_Whitehead says, "Yes Alan, I see that happening too."

Deena says, "Oh man the timezone problems!"

Sue_Thomas says, "Yes Alan."

Ev says, "Are there specific times set yet for anything?"

Sue_Thomas says, "And the commons will also be a resource centre. And a discussion board."

Alan_Sondheim says, "We'll use noon Sundays NY time I think for the workshop chats at first. Try this out -"

Deena says, "How will the commons and resource area and discussion board fit with the current discussion boards?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Deena which current discussion boards?"

Helen_Whitehead says, "They are open only to students of the School."

Deena says, "The trAce boards..."

Sue_Thomas says, "If you mean webboard - this is something quite separate."

Alan_Sondheim says, "And they'd reflect a different sort of community, I think."

Deena says, "Ahh. Thanks for clarifying :)"

Alison_Freeman has joined #trace

Helen_Whitehead says, "But they should have the same friendly helpful working-writer feel."

Sue_Thomas says, "Hi Alison."

Alan_Sondheim says, "Definitely, Helen, and perhaps a bit more intensive."

Deena says, "Hi Alison, we are talking about the trAce writing school and how students can interact in the school."

talanM says, "A cafe."

Sue_Thomas says, "Yes, Talan, a cafe. And open to the tutors too of course. But the commons is optional for everyone."

Deena says, "I'm curious. Marna, Randy, others, how would you use the school as a community? would you want to do more than attend classes?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Students don't have to attend - it's an extra meeting place."

talanM says, "You can't keep me away from coffee, digital or otherwise... :)"

Deena hands round never ending cups of sweet black coffee

Sally says, "Hey people.. What is WebCT exactly?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Is what we call a Managed Learning Environment. See www.WebCT.com."

Sue_Thomas says, "Basically it's an integrated set of classrooms...And course management tools, all 100 % online and webased."

Helen_Whitehead says, "Communications technologies?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Yes Helen I bet you."

Alan_Sondheim says, "Maybe course technology?"

Sue_Thomas says, "You access it via a password."

Helen_Whitehead says, "WebCT has a chat with a separate window in which you launch URLs."

Sally says, "Will classes meet in 'real time', like this?"

Helen_Whitehead says, "Some will Sally, where that's what the students want."

Sue_Thomas says, "Sally, the commons will meet in real time. As to the classes, that's up to the tutors."

Sue_Thomas says, "Alison, do you have any particular questions about the school?"

Alison_Freeman says, "Margaret, Sue, am just interested in finding out more about how it works."

talanM says, "I am planning on holding a couple of 'real-time' discussions."

Sue_Thomas says, "OK Alison, well chip in whenever you like!"

Alison_Freeman says, "Thank you."

Helen_Whitehead says, "I think I'll leave it up to whether my students want to meet in chat."

Alan_Sondheim says, "I definitely would want real-time discussion on an ongoing basis."

Sue_Thomas says, "I would like to ask Talan, Alan and Helen to each say something about their courses."

Helen_Whitehead says, "Talan first?"

Sue_Thomas says, "OK -= Talan - the floor is yours."

M_B says, "I have a question about pricing, how did you decide that?"

Helen_Whitehead says, "Mike -- we'll come back to that."

Sue_Thomas says, "(MB - will address that later)."

Dane and Beth enter.

Deena says, "Hi Dane and Beth, we are talking about the trAce Writing school and Talan Memmott is describing his course."

talanM says, "Where do I begin...The course is HYPERTEXT AND ITS DOUBLE. We will look at various works, and examine the ways in which text is expanded through the media/um. So, discussion is important. "

Helen_Whitehead says, "Will you include your own works?"

talanM says, "We will look at 'Lexia to Perplexia', but there are many other examples."

BDeena says, "Talan, will you cover theory and writing ;)"

talanM says, "Assignments will be fairly loose -- many URLS will be offered up but students can look at whatever from the list...Performative Language is the 'buzz' term for the course.""

Helen_Whitehead says, "Will you talk about visuals, graphics, programming, structure specifically or will it be more generally critical?"

talanM says, "Yes, Helen... How these things are integrated."

Deena says, "Will students create their own works within the context of the course?"

talanM says, "Deena -- yes... A small project as the DREADED FINAL!"

Deena cowers at Talan's ideas of a final...

Sue_Thomas says, "Sounds fun!"

talanM says, "There will be some theory....and a great way to survey what is going on in language on the web. "

Deena says, "Talan, that sounds like an interesting course."

Deena says, "Alan, what about your course? What will you cover?"

Alan_Sondheim says, "It's called Cyberculture and Literature and will deal with two things - students' practice in a variety of applications and media - whatever they want -And cyberculture in general - which also has to do with writing on the Web - but also in newsgroups, Internet Relay Chat, here, and so forth. So people could make work in a number of different venues - some interactive, some not -It will be fairly freeflowing -"

Deena says, "So the course will range over the writing going on in many different forms on the web? What will people be looking for in this sea of writing?"

Alan_Sondheim says, "Not just the Web; the Web's a small part of the Net - I'm just as interested in people who use programming or AOL Instant Messenger for example. Something to take with them both in terms of experience and their own work. Increasing knowledge about what's out there and what's within them -"

Alan_Sondheim says, "I'm hoping for self-motivation and almost no assignments, but a continuous discourse and continuous writing."

Helen_Whitehead says, "Sounds very Arvon!"

Deena says, "Alan, with your writing, I can't think of a more perfect teacher for this course..."

Alan_Sondheim says, "It's a bit like breathing -"

Deena says, "Sounds challenging and exhilarating and lots of late nights."

talanM says, "This course IS Alan. :)"

Marna says, "Alan, will you be addressing identity-topics?"

Alan_Sondheim says, "Marna, I'm not sure - they'll definitely come up with Cyberculture; in the Experimental Writing course - which will focus precisely on writing, more than reading, it would depend on the students."

Marna says, "Interesting. It sounds like a great class."

Margaret says, "Alan, that is more what I imagined trAce classes to be like."

Helen_Whitehead says, "What about the Experimental Writing course? What will the student get from that one?"

Connie_Brigadoon has joined #trace and says, "Hi there everyone!"

Deena says, "Hi Connie, we are discussing some courses to be offered at the trAce online writing school."

Sue_Thomas says, "Margaret there will be something for everyone - hi connie!"

Helen_Whitehead says, "They're like masterclasses: you study with Talan or Alan because you like their approach and want to learn."

Deena says, "Helen, what will your class look like?"

Helen_Whitehead says, "Mine is not like a masterclass, it's more basic: Searching the Web -- about research and getting the most out of that sea of information. I've been an online search expert since the 80s and I'm amazes at how difficult many people find the Web when they're looking for things. So it will involve a good deal of information and encouragement to go away, find out more about search engines, evaluate websites for information and develop search strategies."

Deena says, "That is a practical and great class. I am sure that everyone can get a lot out of that. Have you thought of adding a course for librarians?"

Helen_Whitehead says, "Yes, librarians have got a lot out of my quick tips workshops in the past."

Sally says, "or 'cybrarians' as some of them are called now!"

Sue_Thomas says, "I expect we'll get quite a few librarians signing up."

Helen_Whitehead says, "Anyway. If anyone has a favourite source of information, let me know!"

Alan_Sondheim says, "Just a course around the various googles now would be fantastic; I've been using groups.google.com for quite a while."

Sue_Thomas says, "And then there is Deep Web,which fascinates me."

Deena says, "Yes, and the little tips they don't tell you like putting quotes for a near search...What is Deep web? do you have a URL?"

Alan_Sondheim says, "Yes, what's deep web? Haven't heard the term -"

Helen_Whitehead says, "Deep web or invisible web, yes, there are more and more routes to that!"

Sue_Thomas says, "For deep web see http://www.completeplanet.com/tutorials/deepweb/index.asp."

Helen_Whitehead says, "Deep Web: the millions of Web pages that aren't indexed on the main Web -- intranets, private webs like WebCT -- to find out more - take the course <grin>"

Helen_Whitehead starts digging under the Chat to find a route into the Deep/Hidden/Invisible Web.

Deena says, "So this sounds like a very comprehensive list of courses--from theory to writing around the web to searching on the web. How many courses will be offered initially, and what is your vision for growth?"

Sue_Thomas says, "And that's only 3 of them!"

Margaret says, "Yes it sounds good. Is the person teaching genealogy here?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Margaret, no she isn't - that is Liz Swift. And its not genealogy. It's more about making a family home page with a difference."

Deena says, "How did you decide on the courses to offer?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Deena - decisions...."

Deena says, "What other courses would you guys like to see?"

Sue_Thomas says, "We assess the proposals we receive and respond according to whether they are developed enough and whether we think the students will like them. Then if we're interested we help them develop the courses in WebCT."

Deena says, "Will you have polls from students?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Deena - yes, polls and all kinds of evaluation."

Alan_Sondheim says, "I want to hear about Margaret's course! Deena says, "Oh yes, Margaret, please tell us about your course!"

Sue_Thomas says, "Margaret's course is not in the prospectus yet but please do tell us about it. It looks intriguing!"

Margaret says, "I'm not until Series 2. It can wait"

Sue_Thomas says, "Margaret tell us now :)"

Alan_Sondheim was suddenly dug out of nowhere by Helen...

Deena begs Margaret for a preview

Deena wonders who is shoveling under her chair.

Alan_Sondheim says, ":-)."

Deena says, "I would like to see a course on collaborating on the web--how people work together, how to share email, use collaborative software..."

Margaret says, "It is basically about how the web can take garden writing, one of the oldest genres, dating BC to new depths and navigability."

Alan_Sondheim says, "I'm interested in that - the combination of gardens, ecoHelenies, and communications -"

Deena says, "Margaret, that sounds really interesting. It seems like a microcosm or a good test case for all kinds of writing."

Margaret says, "Because gardening is a cyclical activity, navigation plays an important role . Interactivity is important."

Connie_Brigadoon says, "I write garden supplements for my local newspaper."

Sue_Thomas says, "Margaret will you expect to use images too?"

Deena says, "Right, and there would be the almanac aspect...Ben Franklin online. Oh wow."

Margaret says, "Images and chatroom."

Deena says, "Would you get into bbs, discussion boards, lists, etc...?

Connie_Brigadoon says, "What aspects of gardening will be involved?

Deena says, "What other courses would people like to see?"

Alan_Sondheim says, "Eventually, courses on streaming media, on flash - the idea of a course on collaboration is excellent."

Helen_Whitehead thinks there's a lot of digging in that course.

Sue_Thomas says, "I agree re collaboration. And streaming media etc"

Margaret says, "This is about writing primarily. What kind of gardening writing will depend on the students."

Sue_Thomas says, "We already have a course on flash with Peter Howard."

Margaret says, "Memoirs, practical advice, diary."

Deena says, "I like the idea of flexibility with students..let students drive the particulars."

Sue_Thomas says, "Yes Deena that's how it will be I think."

Deena says, "I would like a course on weblogs and on web journals..."

Helen_Whitehead says, "Deena, yes, I am very interested in journalling, online and off."

Helen_Whitehead says, "I need a gardening site that lets you plan your garden -- with proper symbols that you can move around a garden plan. Anyone know one?"

Deena says, "I like the idea of small courses, you get more interaction."

Sue_Thomas says, "Well, Helen, maybe we need a request box on the front page!"

Sue_Thomas says, "Helen you hate gardening!"

Alan_Sondheim says, "Helen, why not write one up with Margaret for trAce ?"

Helen_Whitehead says, "Yes, perhaps a poll too to vote on the current ideas?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Helen I have some of that software."

Deena says, "I think polls would be great. And they should be for more than just current students."

Helen_Whitehead says, "I don't want to DO gardening, I want to DESIGN a garden (then get someone else to garden....)"

Connie_Brigadoon says, "Oh, I see. There are a so many aspects of gardening that it would be interesting, beneficial insects, soils, plant types, design...even decorating the garden."

Sue_Thomas says, "Folks it's late and I need to go soon."

Alan_Sondheim says, "Me too..."

Sue_Thomas says, "Oh I see, Helen"

Deena says, "Right. I think we have covered a lot of ground, so to speak..."

Helen_Whitehead says, "Ha ha."

Alan_Sondheim says, "I'm going to sign off, but I think we should have more of these types of meetings this month, if we can -"

Deena says, "The courses sound wonderful and I am looking forward to this."

Sue_Thomas says, "Alan we need to have some tutor chats."

Helen_Whitehead says, "We can talk about some of the other courses next week perhaps, more informally?"

Sue_Thomas says, "Deena do sign up!"

Deena says, "The next ELO/trAce chat on May 20 will be with the shortlist of ELO literature winners

Helen_Whitehead says, "Won't we have the winners by then Deena?"

Deena says, "Yep, but we will talk with all the shortlist."

Sue_Thomas says, "Can I mention...There is 1/3 off this first series"

Alan_Sondheim says, "Helen that sounds good."

Beth_Garrison says, "All sounds really good. Especially interested in Alan's experimental course, whatever Talan's agile mind comes up with, and gardening with Margaret."

Deena says, "I will reexamine my schedule!"

.Sue_Thomas says, "But you need to book soon."

Deena says, "Where do we book again?"

Helen_Whitehead says, "Http://tracewritingschool.com."

Sue_Thomas says, "Deena look at the trace front page or tracewritingschool.com."

Deena says, "The schedule for chats is http://www.eliterature.org/com/index.shtml."

Beth_Garrison says, "Its supper time here, so gotta go. see ya...!"

Sue_Thomas says, "Do we have a schedule at trAce too, Helen?"

Deena says, "But we should schedule some open chats for students."

Helen_Whitehead says, "Yes, suggestion for people to have in future chats are welcome now, we're setting the schedule for the rest of the summer."

Deena says, "We will keep you all informed!"

Helen_Whitehead says, "Yes, the schedule will be at Events in trAce at Http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/news/events.cfm."

Connie_Brigadoon says, "I have to go. It's 80 degrees F here and the sun is high in the sky. Time to play with my kids. Just wanted to drop in to say hello. Have a great day everyone."

Alan_Sondheim says, "Have to go myself - I'll be back on regular email later... I can be reached at sondheim@panix.com if anyone has any questions."

Margaret_Penfold says, "Sorry, can't book into a course on the first series. I am away for a week."

Sue_Thomas says, "Thanks Helen and Deena for setting this up. And thanks to all for coming."

Alan_Sondheim says, "Thanks everyone!"

Sue_Thomas says, "I'll arrange a tutor chat soon."

Deena hands round one coffee for the road

Deena says, "Good night all!"

Helen_Whitehead says, "Bye Mike -- but we didn't answer your question! do you want me to?"

M_B says, "Yes, pricing."

Helen_Whitehead says, "It was calculated on what the school costs to run: pay the tutors, buy the software, keep it running, etc."

Deena says, "Are the costs on the website?"

Helen_Whitehead says, "Yes Deena."

Deena says, "Great."

Helen_Whitehead says, "Yes the costs are on the website with the bursary info (that's University-subsidised)."

Helen_Whitehead says, "We were just quoted $4000 to train the tutors on WebCT! I think we can teach them cheaper than that! Anyway, thanks for coming., Maybe see you again next week when it's all a little more informal."

-- Session Close: Sun May 06 22:17:11 2001

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