Workshop Index Page | Syllabus for Christy's Web Workshop (inspiring links) | frAme4: Love in the Digital Revolution

Log of trAce Weekly Online Meeting, WebBoard Chat room
Sunday 20 Feb 2000

Session Start: Sun Feb 20 20:56:10 2000

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<mez> hey christy!

<Helen_Whitehead> Hello mez, Christy, Rachel, Margaret

<mez> and helloah 2 every1 else [how rude of me]....

<Christy_Sanford> Hi, I was at another chat!

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<Christy_Sanford> Hi, Sue,

<Helen_Whitehead> and we are now moving to discuss frAme4, which has many of the same people in

<Christy_Sanford> Thought you weren't coming

* Sue stumbles in wrapped in her business plan

<Sue> christy - how could i miss it?

<Sue> hi everyone

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*** Pauline_Masurel is now known as Maz

<Maz> Hi all

<mez> ooh! a mez and a maz:)

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*** Elizabeth_James is now known as elizabeth

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<Helen_Whitehead> Hello Loss, e

<Loss_Glazier> Yes indeed.

<Helen_Whitehead> Ok Christy, do you want to get us started? Tell us about frAme4: Did the Valentine's Day launch date for frAme come before the

<Christy_Sanford> I thought of February 14 first, then Valentine's Day, then Love and the Digital Revolution

<Helen_Whitehead> Did you want it to be playful?

<Christy_Sanford> No, a combination. Some play, some serious.

<Helen_Whitehead> How did you get your contributions?

<Christy_Sanford> Some I solicited, occasionally I saw a project and approached the prospective contributor. Some people saw the announcement through trAce and submitted

<Loss_Glazier> This is the Valentine's special?

<Margaret_Penfold> Does Valentine's Day have any special connotations in countries outside the UK? Here we have it as the day the birds start nesting

<Alan_Sondheim> Did you advertise outside of trAce? -

<Christy_Sanford> I put it on some lists.

<Christy_Sanford> trAce has a pretty good network

<Helen_Whitehead> Did you have to turn anybody down?

<Christy_Sanford> Yes, some people wanted to just send in a love poem.

<Christy_Sanford> frAme is a theory/cultural journal

<Christy_Sanford> it requires a bit more

<Christy_Sanford> then too, some submissions came after we were filled

<Helen_Whitehead> So we have a resource for next time ;)

<Christy_Sanford> yes

<mez> i think the end seslection is great, well represented by a range of artistic perspectiffz:)

<Sue> and the front design is -- wonderfully edible :)

<Helen_Whitehead> Did you consider the previous issues of frAme when you were planning frAme4?

<Christy_Sanford> Well, Simon has set a high standard.

<Christy_Sanford> So sure.

<Christy_Sanford> There are some repeat offenders :-)

<Loss_Glazier> I put the project on the EPC (Electronic Poetry Center) home page and so far there have been 13,000 people who had the chance to see it!

<Loss_Glazier> Electronic Poetry Center, http://epc.buffalo.edu/

<Sue> 13,000 - thats great

<Christy_Sanford> You did? Great.

* mez hangs her head right into the repeat off.fender choccie bowl;)

<Helen_Whitehead> There's quite a variety of work: how do you judge the qaulity of such different pieces?

<Christy_Sanford> Well, one thing: the quality of the writing has to be high, but also, we wanted people who were using the medium innovatively.

<Christy_Sanford> People using the conventions of the web in new ways to define love.

<Loss_Glazier> We may get even more visitors since we were just written about in USA Today, a paper with a wide circulation.

<Sue> congrats

<Helen_Whitehead> Robert Coover said the golden age of hypertext had finished: do you think we are evolving a new standard for judging web-specific work - which goes beyond hypertext?

<Alan_Sondheim> Do you think there ever was a standard? There isn't; there are standards and communities and demographics etc. - cultural and economic capitals - but the day of canonic standardization, connoissuership, is long past -

<Christy_Sanford> Yes, hypertext is evolving, thank goodness, past links and into something glorious

<Christy_Sanford> yes, Alan, I agree

<mez> alan>>i think yr right, but i think alot of ppl have a hard time with the reality of thizz, and keep trying to apply the outmoded definitions still

<Alan_Sondheim> Which definitions though? You might want to look at the Cybertext book (Cybertext, Perspectives on Ergodic Literature, Espen Aarseth, Johns Hopkins) which goes into discussions about this -

<Sue> perhaps the question is not about how to judge them but how to read them - how to be literate in them

<Alan_Sondheim> "Judging" is difficult - I have that problem with the net-art competition I'm involved with

<mez> alan>>definitions to do with wot shood be hypertextual, web-literate etc

<Christy_Sanford> Could I speak of love?

* Sue listens to christy speaking of love

<Margaret_Penfold> We'd love you to, Christy

<Christy_Sanford> The web, seems to me, has a mystique in regard to love. at once racy and forbidden and yet often commercial and remote.

<Christy_Sanford> How do you feel about this schism?

<Christy_Sanford> It spawns immediate intimacy--sometimes.

* mez draws herself in2 a wurdskin for the love discussion

<Christy_Sanford> a wurdskin is a sexy word

* Sue touches mez's wurdskin to see how it feels - rather warm and nice

* mez revelz in her skin and textual touch

<Christy_Sanford> But I felt the people with their projects, were often redefining love using the new medium.

<Christy_Sanford> Just a thought.

<Margaret_Penfold> The meaning of love, nowadays seems so narrow.

<mez> marg>> i think this narrowness is beautifulli x-panded in frAme4

<Sue> christy - can you describe some of these new definitions?

<Alan_Sondheim> sorry I missed what you first said, but how was or is love defined in the first place? doesn't this again depend on cultural context in the broadest sense? -

<Helen_Whitehead> did you try to get a variety within what you were offered Christy? Is that part of the editor/curator's job?

<Christy_Sanford> I knew you d ask me something specific, Sue :-)

<mez> such a [red]dye.chot.oh.mee love to tech 2 luv 2 tech[ne]

* Sue smiles

<Alan_Sondheim> well [red]dye hard with a vengence (sorry)...

<Christy_Sanford> Ha, ha, I cant say exactly, just that there was more to love than the love between two lovers.

<Alan_Sondheim> Saint Teresa goes on about that

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* mez reaches a staticwurd outwards, spiralling

<Sue> one thing i have noticed about the web and love is that...

<Sue> it accommodates 2 extremes - the most extreme sex and also the most spiritual joinings

<Christy_Sanford> And that intimacy could be explored with everything from Flash to animation to mouse overs

<Helen_Whitehead> intimacy: Michael Atavar's keyword, perhaps particularly relevant on the Web?

<Christy_Sanford> yes

<Alan_Sondheim> Sue so does Saint Teresa - I'm not trying to be flip here - I think modalities expand online, but certainly the discourse is replete - look at Barthes' writings for example

<Christy_Sanford> And that was something, too, the debunking of false intimacies.

<Christy_Sanford> mez is good at that

* mez watches her wurd releazed, bounch forth from mouth to lover'z mouth

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<Sue> yes alan i know what you mean in fact that is a coincidnce because one of my first lambda chars had bathes 2writing as my desc

<Sue> writing is a skin etc

<Margaret_Penfold> I always thought love was defined as putting the other's interest before one's own

<mez> yeah i'm a bit of a cynic, thizz comez thru in my wurk...

<Alan_Sondheim> Margaret, not to be cynical but it's probably the reverse

<Helen_Whitehead> Is love one of the themes in your own work, Christy?

<Christy_Sanford> Ha, has been, yes. Especially triangles.

<Alan_Sondheim> do tell!

<Margaret_Penfold> Sometimes it is difficult to understand what the other's interest is when not in close physical contact.- not necessarily sexual contact

<elizabeth> Blake's The Clod and the Pebble opposes precisely those 2 positions -- Margaret is a Clod and Alan perhaps a Pebble.

<Alan_Sondheim> and sometimes Margaret it's easier for desire to be expressed over distance

<Loki93c_Asgard> 3's seem to have apeculiar fascination for humans

<Helen_Whitehead> triangles is an interesting aspect to explore on the Web... have you found it easier with the 3D element?

<Christy_Sanford> Wow, Helen, that s a great idea.

<Christy_Sanford> The idea of 3d love

<Helen_Whitehead> it's easier for desire to be faked over distance...

<Margaret_Penfold> Desire is not love - love is unselfish

<Floyd_Wilde> Definately easier.

<Helen_Whitehead> triangles, and more than triangles...

<Alan_Sondheim> Gads Margaret, to me love is incredibly selfish... but I'm a pebble or something...

<Loki93c_Asgard> neccesity/boredom/choice

<Christy_Sanford> desire versus altruism?

<mez> tri[phasil]angelle?;)

<Alan_Sondheim> Exactly , back to Rollo May, love and will

<Helen_Whitehead> lovely, mez...

<Christy_Sanford> is sex a machine reaction? I'm smiling.

<Margaret_Penfold> altruism isn't necessarily love -

<Alan_Sondheim> We'll know when we unplug...

<Helen_Whitehead> and did you only do it for the chocolate, Christy...

<Helen_Whitehead> ...which according to recent research does more for women than sex...

<Christy_Sanford> I have to admit, lighting and chocolate are great.

<Loki93c_Asgard> lol

<Sue> lighting?

<Alan_Sondheim> to see the dark chocolate?

<Christy_Sanford> yes, drama created by Photoshop.

<Sue> ah

<Christy_Sanford> Lighting does have a lot to do with drama, I think.

<Helen_Whitehead> i'll take the chocolate, Photoshop does nothing for me!

<Alan_Sondheim> Christy, look into Gimp sometime (Linux)

<Christy_Sanford> Okay

<Nenagh__Watson> Nenagh says Alice B Toklas has a wonderful hot chocolate recipe

<Loki93c_Asgard> the lighting could be a primitive memory?

<Loki93c_Asgard> from lightning lit caves etc?

<Helen_Whitehead> Did the creation of frAme4 take you long?

<Christy_Sanford> The interface took several days and the collecting, naturally, much longer.

<Margaret_Penfold> Vitamin D

<Christy_Sanford> The corrections of my own scripts and others, took some time, too.

<Alan_Sondheim> Loki, that's a really good point - it also outlines only what you want the viewer to see, there's a degree of psychoanalytical control there

<Helen_Whitehead> Yes, I wondered about that: did the contributors prepare their own pages?

<Helen_Whitehead> I couldn't get Jennifer's music to work, for example

<Loki93c_Asgard> i often feel light stirs odd emotions on a deep level

<Christy_Sanford> Yes, but for example, Michael s didnt go across platforms.

<Helen_Whitehead> that must have taken a lot of fixing!

<Loki93c_Asgard> like deja vu but different

<Christy_Sanford> A simple thing to correct but there were 57 pages and it was the middle of the night in England so I did it.

* mez watches the lokilight play, sur.face [N body] tensions, cave.ities

<Alan_Sondheim> Loki I agree, look at Beowulf or medieval theories of light -

<Alan_Sondheim> Christy you did a terrific job -

<Loki93c_Asgard> excellent Alan

<Christy_Sanford> Thanks, Alan, you had a great contribution.

<Alan_Sondheim> Thanks - a lot of that of course was Barry's

<Sue> alan your piece has moved so many people

<Christy_Sanford> We are privileged to have some of the contributors here!

<Alan_Sondheim> Thanks Sue -

<Loki93c_Asgard> looking upwards from pools at the light on the interface, dolphin memeory?

<Margaret_Penfold> Not dolphin aquatic human

<Sue> loki and mez are making me think that we dont use this chat room eneough for just improvising and recording texts

<Loki93c_Asgard> mammalian

<Alan_Sondheim> Klaus Theweleit talks about the, primates evolving from sea creatures - I don't really buy into it

<Margaret_Penfold> I do. but then I am happiest in warm seas

<Helen_Whitehead> We should try it at a later date, when Christy isn't here to question!

<Sue> christy can i ask you something?

<Christy_Sanford> Ask!

<Helen_Whitehead> we can save this text so far to start in future, light and water....

<Nenagh__Watson> Say any how with confidence.

<Sue> leading in from the discussion we just had at riding the meridian (see , do you see much different between men and women's web work?

<mez> sorry sue, thizz is 1 way i get my mozt n-rr-getic ideers, using chat sessionz az creativity spring!-boardz...

<Christy_Sanford> Yes in content, but I think women are just as tech-savvy

<Sue> -mez - get that in moos but not ususally in chats - i'm enjoying it

<Sue> content? what about style?

<mez> ;)

<Alan_Sondheim> How so in content? The women I know are actually more tech savvy

<Loki93c_Asgard> the ambience is usually different though

<Helen_Whitehead> mez you can milk us for ideas in your chat next week!

<mez> helenW>>sure;0)

<Loki93c_Asgard> but maybe only noticable 2 another writer/artist ?

<mez> i like to break down the male/female dichotomee in2 a trait based thing, more feminine/masculine approachez/cat.eegor[y]izationz...

<Sue> loki what do you mean?

<Alan_Sondheim> This is an important point - even with breaking down the dichotomy, I'd still like to hear about gender differences, if there are such in tenor, style, content, online -

<mez> alan>>sure...

<Loki93c_Asgard> subtle differences in , well, touch for want of anything better

<Christy_Sanford> Can you tell my writing is female, Alan?

<Margaret_Penfold> Perhaps you could analyse the postings in trAce

<Margaret_Penfold> Most of the posters are known by one other member at least in the flesh

<Margaret_Penfold> so could be quite a valid exercise

<Christy_Sanford> Revolving door.

<Alan_Sondheim> There's a discussion on gender on the Poetics list - ah Christy, to me your work relates to Flannery O'Conner - does that make any sense - and a kind of Southern aesthetic that I found when I lived in Atlanta -

<elizabeth> Sue to me the chat is like an empty room but the moo, there is stuff around, it's warmer to write there (I think)

<Sue> e - i agree - e !

<mez> when i phirzt started on chatlinez 5 or sew yrz agao, i constantlee got taken as a male...

<Christy_Sanford> Magnolia blossoms

<Alan_Sondheim> and I'm not sure that men would work through the kinds of unfoldings you use (which I love)

<Christy_Sanford> I would never take you for a male, mez!

<Alan_Sondheim> Yes, or a kind of fluidity that reminds me of Irigaray, Anais Nin even

<Loki93c_Asgard> netizens can be genderless beyond the here & hard familiarities

<Sue> i would take mez for male - or at least ambiguous

<Helen_Whitehead> i always thought mez was female

* Sue welcomes the mez spivak

<Christy_Sanford> Well, hopefully we all have male and female attributes.

<mez> christy>>itz strange, i think that waz more 2 do with the fact that very few userz where female, alzo that i was [preddy] azz-surtive

<Alan_Sondheim> Yes, but they can also explore gender, their own or others', or genders, or any variety; we've got alot of culture to work through

<Helen_Whitehead> Christy, you say you find the technology a great inspiration: do you think it's necessary for web writers to be always experimenting with the technology, in order to produce something new?

<Christy_Sanford> Yes, Helen, I do.

<Alan_Sondheim> Not only male and female, but imaginaries of other genders, resonances, reflections, that appear online

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<Loki93c_Asgard> my character in part2 of my stuff is trans-sexual, part3 will be female

<Sue> what is pt 1?

<Loki93c_Asgard> i wanted the character to alter

* mez spivaks, rolls, twists and genderloopz..n loopz..and loveloopz...

<Loki93c_Asgard> pt1 is male

<Loki93c_Asgard> its back to threes again...lol

<Sue> that is tidy!

<Christy_Sanford> It is fun to write from a male point of view, I admit.

<Alan_Sondheim> use to think that was Gayatri, but it's Michael...

<Sue> i dont know what a male / female pov is

<Helen_Whitehead> Triangles -- threes -- have always been important in storytelling -- like in the folk and fairy tales

<mez> sue>>yeah, hard 2 do:)

* Alan_Sondheim thinks if Alan didn't exist Sue would have to create him ...

<Sue> i did, alan, sweetie :)

<Loki93c_Asgard> yep, & the T/S is the mid-link

<Loki93c_Asgard> from anima to animus

<Alan_Sondheim> I'd rather just anims...

<mez> oooh 3's texttrip.tichez are my lure and bait...

<Alan_Sondheim> and thanks Sue!

<Christy_Sanford> Sue, I think you are a woman with often very feminine qualities IRL and on the page.

<Sue> my pleasure, alan

<Christy_Sanford> Happy, I am

* mez feelz her wurdskin shimmah, gossmer textthreads spinning, spivaking in2 dust...

<Sue> christy but the question is - none of that is deliberate - yet when we talk about writing as the opposite sex - that becomes deliberate

<Sue> whereas really we are just writing as us

<Sue> does that make sense?

<mez> sorry guys gotta go meet real life responsibilitiez unfortunately...

<Sue> i'm sad to hear that mez

<Alan_Sondheim> not necessarily, Sue, unless that is already a "character" - bye Mez

<Christy_Sanford> Yes, but when you assume a role, you go on automatic pilot.

<elizabeth> Love your angels mez

<Helen_Whitehead> thanks for coming

*** mez has left #trace

<elizabeth> Sue what you said is interesting...

<elizabeth> 'writing as' ... presumably you would have to get so far in character as to forget it wasn't 'you' to be truly writing in the other pov?

<Alan_Sondheim> or e, you just begin that way, it just flows naturally

<Margaret_Penfold> Mostly you do forget it isn't you with every character, don't you?

<Sue> i havent often written 'as a man' but when i do, i just think about how i would feel

<Christy_Sanford> With no particular man in your imagination?

<Floyd_Wilde> This reload thing is'nt working for me

<elizabeth> Not sure Alan. I read transcriptions of people role playing, or playing games, whatever, they soudn like they are 'acting'.

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<Sue> no, i never imagine a particuylar man - only the man i am writing

<Sue> the character

<Christy_Sanford> yes

<Alan_Sondheim> e, that might be a more self-conscious decision; when I write Nikuko, I feel she is writing me - it really isn't as-if

<Sue> good point alan

<elizabeth> Guess it depends on the writer. It has happened to me about twice in my life, to be possessed by another (male)voice

<Helen_Whitehead> why is she a Russian ballet dancer, with a Japanese name? (sorry, I should have asked that last week!)

<Maz> I think there is a difference, e, between 'being' or performing a character and writing one

<elizabeth> (I mean in writing not literally)

<Sue> can ppl say more about being possessed by their characters?

<Margaret_Penfold> Maz, I don't feel the difference

<Alan_Sondheim> Helen, she began as a snack-bar girl in Fukuoka, became a demiurge, and dancing as such is important in Japanese creation mythology, moved from there into ballerina on one hand, parable o the other

<Loki93c_Asgard> they can become stage-skins to wear

<Helen_Whitehead> I have always had trouble "getting into" character: I try all sorts of exercises to create a character who isn't wooden, who isn't just some boring part of me

<Sue> stage-skins? nice word

<Nenagh__Watson> when I was creating the character of Dr, Frankinstein - i recreated elements of my dad, and they got kind of mixed up with me - so I ended up with a live spivik!

<Sue> what about the exciting parts of you helen?

<elizabeth> To me it could only be through voice.

<Helen_Whitehead> sue, they don't seem to come out <sadly>

<Sue> nenagh that's fasicinatng and scarey

<Christy_Sanford> Do you close your eyes when you write?

elizabeth laughs!

<Helen_Whitehead> Christy, how would you see what you were writing?

<Sue> christy! i couldnt see the page if i did!!!

<Nenagh__Watson> say - yesssss i like the idea of stage skins!

* Sue laughs herself silly

<Alan_Sondheim> why would you want to see what you write?

<Christy_Sanford> I type with my eyes closed

<Loki93c_Asgard> like alice cooper, ziggy et al

<Christy_Sanford> Can t you do that?

<Loki93c_Asgard> immersive rpg's

<Sue> you must be a touch typist

<Helen_Whitehead> are you a proper typist Christy? I would end up with rubbish if I did that!

<elizabeth> Allen B put something on the board pre-spellcheck...

<Christy_Sanford> Ha, I didn t know I had a special talent.

<Alan_Sondheim> Alice Cooper types with his eyes closed?

<Sue> oh oh here is a story

<Sue> i once heard a concert pianist talk on the radio...

<Christy_Sanford> I don't always

<Sue> he was very disabled as a child

<Margaret_Penfold> When I write masculine my whole body feels masculine. I often bump into things when coming out of the session

<Helen_Whitehead> OK I'm trying to tytpe with my eyes shit

<Helen_Whitehead> hahah

* Maz laughs

<Christy_Sanford> That was almost perfect.

<Alan_Sondheim> ljksdflihth sllk et!! (typed with my eyes open!)

<Sue> he would prop up a novel on his music stand, read for hours, and play while he read - played to the novel as it were

<Helen_Whitehead> better than I expected!

<Sue> that really stayed with me, that image

<Loki93c_Asgard> not enough websites speak y'know, leaves out a lot of folks

<Maz> just physically impossible Helen

<Christy_Sanford> more and more sites have voice, like with real audio

<Christy_Sanford> Do you like that?

<Alan_Sondheim> Loki, there are attempts to make them accessible by speaking software, but things like image maps really don't work

<Christy_Sanford> We could have soap operas anyday

<Loki93c_Asgard> in many ways we are blind & deaf & mute, weird, true Alan

<Sue> margaret - why do you bump into things when you are a man?

<Maz> I worry that audio and visuals will 'do for' the written word on the web eventually.....not entirely but mainly

<elizabeth> Margaret, do you bump into things after any really concentrated writing session?

<Alan_Sondheim> Yes, but there are people who really _are_ and they are left out a lot -

<elizabeth> Me too Mazzy, completely.

<Sue> alan i agree

<Nenagh__Watson> is that a bump or are you just pleased to see me?

<Christy_Sanford> Reiner, this is your second chat session today, how are you?

<Margaret_Penfold> Because it takes a while for me to come to terms with my protruding bits]

<Loki93c_Asgard> maybe they could implant retinal micscreens, get 'em online?

* Sue tee hees at nenagh

<Christy_Sanford> Ah, the penis bumbs into a table.

<elizabeth> Was anyone else unable to get into defib url tonight btw?

<Christy_Sanford> bumps

<Reiner_Strasser> tsss ... i amlurking .... does anyone speak german ? :))

<Sue> margaret, it's only pretend you know

<Alan_Sondheim> Yeah, men can't walk anywhere without getting smashed!

<Sue> i got into defib

<Christy_Sanford> ein

<Alan_Sondheim> bisschen

<Reiner_Strasser> :)

<Helen_Whitehead> it's not that men are clumsy, just that Margaret would have thought herself into a different shape from the real one

<Sue> ok you can all speak german but i have to get back underneath my business plan

<Christy_Sanford> I went to defib, no problem.

<Sue> so i will leave you to it

<Alan_Sondheim> Adrian Piper talked a lot about that in her work when she was performing as a man

<Christy_Sanford> Win money!

<Sue> thanks christy for an ailluminating interview and thanks helen

<Alan_Sondheim> Take care Sue -

<Helen_Whitehead> Well, can I announce that mez will be back next week possibly even talking about her Angelz in frAme4

<elizabeth> Bye Sue

<Alan_Sondheim> Excellent!

<Helen_Whitehead> Any more questions for Christy as we are wrapping up?

<Christy_Sanford> I saw her perform as a woman, Alan, what was the man thing about?

<Alan_Sondheim> Years ago, performances she did and presented as ads in the Village Voice

*** Sue has left #trace

<Helen_Whitehead> I have a few more comments from Christy which i will add to the page with the log.

<Christy_Sanford> Soon we will have sound, the revolution will provide.

<Loki93c_Asgard> who inspires you Christy?

* Helen_Whitehead listens

<Christy_Sanford> tech, Reiner

<Christy_Sanford> love, light

<Christy_Sanford> color, longing

<Christy_Sanford> who? Greenaway, Jane C.

<Christy_Sanford> Marguerite Duras, Madame de Lafayette

<Christy_Sanford> Stein,

<Alan_Sondheim> Duras definitely appears

<Christy_Sanford> Tennessee Williams, how about you?

<Maz> Sorry must go but many thanks Christy Helen for the talk

*** Maz has left #trace

<Margaret_Penfold> Bye, Maz

<Alan_Sondheim> I've got to go myself, too much to do online at the moment...

<Christy_Sanford> How about everyone else, who could you write a love poem to?

<Loki93c_Asgard> ray bradbury & hunter thompson Christy,

<Margaret_Penfold> I must go too. I will post some photos I have taken some of you may see as relevant to this chat

<Christy_Sanford> Science fiction and the tough guy

<Alan_Sondheim> Take care everyone - Christy please let us know when you have other projects - send announcements to me and I'll send them to the lists -

<Helen_Whitehead> many thanks Christy!

*** Margaret_Penfold has left #trace

<Alan_Sondheim> And thanks, bye everyone -

*** Alan_Sondheim has quit IRC (QUIT:)

<Christy_Sanford> RS, do you have Valentine s Day in Germany?

<elizabeth> Bye Christy -- still sorry I didn't make it into your frAme! but it's alovely issue -- bye everyone.

<Christy_Sanford> Bye, Elizabeth.

<Reiner_Strasser> no not really - only like - mac donalds :)

<Christy_Sanford> Thanks, E

*** elizabeth has quit IRC (QUIT:)

<Loki93c_Asgard> i'd like to be in the next frAme Christy

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<Christy_Sanford> Reiner, I read that Germany is changing their policy about the web?

<Christy_Sanford> that it will be cheaper

<Christy_Sanford> to connect

<Christy_Sanford> is this true?

<Reiner_Strasser> ???

<Reiner_Strasser> the phone costs are high enough

<Christy_Sanford> They are going to go down, I think.

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<TraceLog> Thank you lots, Christy, we'll be in touch and see you soon!

Session Close: Sun Feb 20 22:05:26 2000

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trAce Online Writing Centre
The Nottingham Trent University, Clifton Lane, Clifton, Nottingham NG11 8NS, England
Tel: +44 (0)115 848 6360 Fax: +44 (0)115 848 6364

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