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Session Start: Tue Jul 11 21:37:25 2000
[21:37] *** Now talking in #Incubation
[21:37] *** selkie is now known as jacqui
[21:38] did i interupt anything?
[21:38] *** Andy_Barrett has joined #Incubation
[21:38] nothing happening yet, Sue said she was setting things up
[21:38] Peter-Webb says,"forgive me while I wrestle with the technology, new boy and all that."
[21:39] *** Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jul 11 21:39:20 2000
Session Start: Tue Jul 11 21:39:28 2000
[21:39] *** Now talking in #Incubation
[21:39] while we waiting I am from Berwickshire/Scotland
[21:40] i am from Murfreesboro, TN USA
[21:40] almost ready
[21:40] and i am from Nottingham, England
[21:40] Great. Nice to meet you
[21:41] Peter_Webb says, "I am lost, is there a saviour?"
[21:41] You are appearing on screen Peter
[21:41] Alan is saying he'd like to begin and welcome us to the scratch conference
[21:42] Ok
[21:42] He's saying that they each have 5 miniutes to speak.
[21:42] Then there'll be questions and answers
[21:42] Peter _Webb says "Thank you, Jacqui."
[21:42] Belle is going first.
[21:43] alan, how do I post that piece i set you? I can stay for 5 or 10 and then return in an hour,
[21:43] Bell and Chris are going to talk about Chipring Harpsochord Turnpike: hire wire improv and the net.
[21:44] In practice we seem to write from somewhere
[21:44] Chats can be poetry
[21:44] Chirping harsopchord turnpike spikes from heaven
[21:45] Chris and Belle are giving a performance piece
[21:45] They're taking it in turns to speak sentences
[21:46] I can't type fast enough to explain what they're saying
[21:46] *** Andy_Barrett has quit IRC (QUIT: )
[21:46] can you give us one or two of the sentences?
[21:46] Attempt to bring the CPU to zero..
[21:46] Imagining your own future breath
[21:46] Here's a basket taking shape
[21:47] Peel the orange
[21:47] *** James_Mawhirk has joined #Incubation
[21:47] Daffodils falsly
[21:47] Firewall on the city edge or...
[21:47] Atlanta burning
[21:47] By birds construct
[21:47] chris, can we do a renga here?
[21:48] OK - they've finished now and I feel I haven't managed to get in the tone of the piece.
[21:48] *** Andy_Barrett has joined #Incubation
[21:48] alpabet soup twenty-five sent to alabama
[21:48] q& answers yet?
[21:49] Chris says he's totally committed to improvsing live
[21:49] Next will be Margaret.
[21:49] Margaret Penfold - Ageism
[21:49] Where she from?
[21:49] Peter_Webb says, "Are we old enough to understand this?"
[21:49] Throuh my work I've come across a number of housebound people, elderly geographicaly isolated people
[21:50] REad widely watch TV but are convinced that they cannot master comp skills or don't have the room.
[21:50] I run courses at the local library to introduce the net. Some people can't use a keyboard or a mouse
[21:50] And they're certain that they won't be able to cope, but I'm impressed that they always ended up being really enthusiastic.
[21:51] They never think of the laptop idea.
[21:51] In comp shops Comps are portrayed in packages never to the OAPs, yet they're purchasing power is well above that of the struggling family.
[21:51] Laptops are ideal for the older citizen and the op system is the only thing included.
[21:52] Word processing the graphics are not included and yet they're necessary.
[21:53] This generation are a useful source of annecdotes about wars and history.
[21:53] If retailers and adervertiser targetted the elderly they'd do well.
[21:53] Most elderly however impoverished own a TV.
[21:54] The way of the net can eventually be for this age group.
[21:54] Is there any way that retailers can be convinced to promote senior citizen packages.
[21:54] That's Margeret finished.
[21:54] Someone is asking if the laptop screen is a problem.
[21:54] That was good.
[21:54] Margaret doesn't think so
[21:55] Can you ask if hand tremors affect using a laptop please?
[21:55] margaret, there are senior centers here they would be interested.
[21:55] maybe we should remind retailers that the old are a useful source of anecdotes about wars and history
[21:56] Rhuematoid fingers don't cope with the computer mouse very well
[21:56] Margaret says that tremors are not necessarily about tremors, as you aren't worried about the speed of your typing, just the communicationng.
[21:56] Opps communicating.
[21:56] Peter_Webb says, "I assume that large -key ketboards, like large button phones would be possible?"
[21:56] Shaking when trying to move the arrow on to words to correct or save can be a problem
[21:57] A large keyboard would be a great idea.
[21:57] Margaret doens't think that telephones are the answer.
[21:57] Better still, a voice dictation package
[21:57] Margaret wants to know where Tom Bell lives as we don't have these centres in the UK.
[21:58] sent me an email and i'll give you some info?
[21:58] we have been trying to set a scheme for the elderly to use computers here but taking years. Berwickshire.
[21:58] Voice dictations packages - Margaret has tried them but when she said Hello on it it came back with the first line of the Americcan Independece speech.
[21:58] Margaret @webleicester.co.uk
[21:58] i use viavoice millenium and it's great
[21:58] Peter_Webb says, "Typical."
[21:59] Thankyou Jacqui how much is voice millenium?
[21:59] Is it available in the UK?
[21:59] around £90.!
[22:00] yes. Office world dixons comet etc
[22:00] Peter_Webb says, "The pCKAges concernijg voice dictation that were offered for sale at the comp. fair here in Wolves wre very useful and top-drawe makes were available from around £190
[22:00] Laura Watts
[22:00] That is an interesting act to follow
[22:01] mobilephones and interaction
[22:01] insigths \i think intersaction worled will
[22:01] 3 elements worked mobiles are personal intemate
[22:02] Mobile phones are personal and portable.
[22:03] Peter_Webb says, "Moile phones speak for themselves
[22:03] And the third thing is that they're central the network knows who you are and whre you are.
[22:03] The other thing is that it's emotive and evocative.
[22:03] *** jules has quit IRC (QUIT: )
[22:03] I am using viavoice in this mir programme
[22:03] You hear someones voice and emotion and a lot can be expressed in text.
[22:03] Laura took part in First Impressions
[22:04] And she found out a lot about people in ten words.
[22:04] Unlike the web were we spend ages geting logged on.
[22:04] Peter_Webb says, "and fumbling"
[22:04] Mobile phones you don't care how they work. If you're trying to get across a narrative the tech is not a barrier.
[22:04] You can get across the emotion of a piece
[22:04] you can get a voice on the Internet
[22:05] I just want to give you some examples of things out there - taking advantage of this media.
[22:05] The Royal College of ARt did a graphic of a cat and would stay for a while and then wander off to tsoemone elses phone.
[22:05] The cat would wander around the network Virtual entity.
[22:06] *** Ynot_Ynot has quit IRC (QUIT: )
[22:06] cool
[22:06] Laura is also working with a compnay in SCotland who are working on Games with WAP phones and a MOO like system/.
[22:06] So those are in place
[22:06] Peter_says, "That virtual cat, Was it as annoying as that purple gorrilla that keeps appearing on screen?"
[22:06] I feel very stronlgy that this ia completely new kind of space for us to explore
[22:07] There's a lot of business imperative
[22:07] I used to work in telecomms and there are a lot of peop0le out there who are prepreared to pay a lot of money.
[22:07] *** Andy_Barrett has quit IRC (QUIT: )
[22:07] More poeple have phones
[22:08] To summarise I'd like to invite anyone who's interested we have this group the Moby Group
[22:08] We#'d love to have uyou on board.
[22:08] One we have someone who's interested in using Theatre in WaP phones.
[22:08] Another idea is location on trains for poetry.
[22:08] Issues of geographical location and interaction.
[22:09] Please talk to Laura if you want to know more.
[22:09] mobile phones are not possible for a lot of people who will find monthly rental prohibitive, such as the disabled and the elderly
[22:09] Someone has asked what a WAP phone is.
[22:09] expensive
[22:09] It allows you to do very simple internet connections.
[22:09] Where are you Jacqui
[22:09] Scotland
[22:10] Laura says that there Pay per use are available soon for WAP phones.
[22:10] Laura has been asked if she likes the limitation of the screen.
[22:10] She does,
[22:11] The next speaker is Alan Sondheim who's taling about Trace and he's going to type.
[22:12] into mirc?
[22:12] Hi, I'm Alan Sondheim and I'm typing here andx someone is going to read this out loud and elaborate on it on the screen
[22:12] Cause I love typing and everyone gets tired here.
[22:12] I have threee questoins
[22:12] One, What about people who simply can't write poetry on trAce\?
[22:12] Do we make an assumption that everyone is a poet or prose writer here, and deserves equal attention by virtue of putting up work for criticism?
[22:13] *** mez has joined #Incubation
[22:13] 'lo all:)
[22:13] is so that due to physical difficulties or lack all the Internet access
[22:13] Peter says, "lo Mez
[22:13] this is the scratch conf, yes?
[22:13] Second question, Hi Mez!!!! It's due to the interest in inverting these positions...
[22:13] Hi mez, lo mez, uyes, scratched, tyhere are hundreds and thpousands of peoples watching you
[22:14] right now!
[22:14] write now!
[22:14] ehehh shood i b phazed?
[22:14] * mez tries her best "rabbit caught in da spotlight" pose
[22:14] :)
[22:14] Littlewoods
[22:14] sECOND QUESTION - what about developing NEGATIVE attitudes towards your audience? I was wondering about this - instead of cultivating them, perhaps we should also work on txts like jodi.org or m9ndfukc.com which crash the machine on occasion...
[22:15] Third, is trAce mostly about collaboration?
[22:15] I mean can we be the neurotic isolated writer and still have relevance here?
[22:15] These are my three questions.
[22:15] ALAN YOU ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME!
[22:15] DAMN!
[22:15] STOP THAT!
[22:15] OK!
[22:15] let's go on - any questions?
[22:15] Thank you -
[22:16] * mez watches the dr j[h]eckel mr h[i]yde dis.play:)
[22:16] Peter says, "Where do I get this machine that only crashes "on occasion"?
[22:16] We are watching the mez/heckel display, it's really embarrassing...
[22:16] LINUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:16] *** PrinceOfHeaven has joined #Incubation
[22:16] There are more geeks here than you would dream of!
[22:16] yes i only found out about trace buried recently d'you think you need to publicise trace more
[22:17] Linux is the way...
[22:17] Yes, I think so, but osme people say no...
[22:17] Some people are worried that anyone has heard of it at all..
[22:17] sorry using evoice package excuse spelling
[22:18] re:2nd qz, the neg x-perience, izzn't the pointte of ani good creation/x-pression 2 get a reaction? cf antiorp's rancid poztingz?
[22:18] Ah, here we're typing and I'm making a LOT of errors...
[22:18] I think so, but I think that a lot of people want to have a more comfortable relationship with the audience...
[22:18] Besides antiorp calls everyone (including me) korporat fascist !!!!
[22:19] Miranda Mowbray is about to talk about - It's real
[22:19] izzn't that com.4.table re:action a static 1 though? confrontation.all ass.pects seem 2 leazt 2 get frictionalized responzes, dia/multilogues happenin...?
[22:19] *** James_Mawhirk has quit IRC (QUIT: )
[22:19] Miranda talks real fast and so she's going to paraphrase for me.
[22:19] ooh i t z r e e l
[22:20] You see in the distance a flying pizza
[22:20] It lands on Nottingham Trent University and out of the pizza comes Carmen
[22:20] i typed in writing in a search engine and found Trcae
[22:20] Carmen is a character I play
[22:20] n a recipe page
[22:20] Carmen Miranda that is - flamboyant - but me.
[22:21] Carmen Miranda is real because she's me - when she's talking I'm talking.
[22:21] In MOOs and Bulletin boards and chat it's real. People are expressing what they feel,.
[22:21] * mez watches miranda's ghostings in progrezz
[22:21] I like the idea that fiction is a deeper truth
[22:21] is that what real is?
[22:21] * mez x-presses herslef through pizza lust
[22:22] As Carmen Miranda I met a woman who was deaf and we became friends, but when we met in the flesh we coulnd't communicate.
[22:22] fiction az a deep.her truth...wot is truth...e-turn.all qzingz n clichez there
[22:22] Also a man that was shy. Who could communicate on line but not in a flesh meet.
[22:23] hmm is shy a de[a]fintiff criteria that passez both the rl n vr tezt?
[22:23] Third example a chap who is was sweet but silly, then I met him and he was unbelievablly beautfiult
[22:23] *** PrinceOfHeaven has left #Incubation
[22:23] ah p o h left
[22:23] In the places where I'm Carmen Miranda my friendships are as real as those I have as Miranda
[22:23] This is real.
[22:23] And this means that we have a duty to treat the people on line with the same respect and compassion as those off line.
[22:24] Peter says, "Face-to-face, feet to feet heart to heart beat to beat? Will technology got in the way
[22:24] Carmen Miranda serves mango ice cream and flirts ... get's back into her flying pizza and is gone back to Italy.
[22:24] That's Miranda finished.
[22:24] Any questions
[22:24] * mez ponders the fracture point, m-ulation of offline standardz in2 a sphere d-signed for du-pliciteez, resonancez, echoz and ghost purrson.arghs
[22:25] I agree with treating people on line as we would those off line.
[22:25] James the deeper truth is what real is and something that's real is something that makes me cry
[22:25] However I think that there may be elements of danger in the internet being anonymous to some extent
[22:25] izzn't that mizzing the pointe though? the web of n-trigue? layerings? etc?
[22:26] and the fact it isn't really anonymous
[22:26] Alan saw the flying Pizza last night.
[22:26] Peter says, "Then all it becomes is a screen for our fears."
[22:26] It sounds intriguing
[22:26] Manuel Castell has a good quote on the Internet you really can be a dog - you can express your dogginess on the Internet.
[22:26] or oure desires N x-pressionz...
[22:26] Or you can escape from your shyness and insecurities by being anonymous
[22:27] You can have fiction to decieve and you can have fiction for truth - but you can have that in your real life.
[22:27] or u can d-velop a altern-8 behaviour standard, ethic quo-10
[22:27] The internet beats looking at four walls.
[22:27] or both, a f[r]iction of de[cieve]sire
[22:28] Mioranda thinks you should always behave ethically and with respect on the Net
[22:28] you get windows instead...
[22:28] ethic.aulli according 2 wot universal standard though?
[22:28] I agree totally with Miranda.
[22:28] my ethics? western ethics/ sociopath ethics?
[22:29] Someone has asked whether you should behave more ethically on the internet than say in this room.
[22:29] * mez izzn't suggesting we shood all be sociopathz, just bringing it down to a base standard seemz m-possible
[22:29] Miranda says you should have one standard.
[22:29] and wot is that standard?
[22:29] [juzt curiouz]
[22:29] ie. Treat others as you would like to be treated I guess!
[22:30] Peter says, "That's humanity talking
[22:30] True Peter but it gives a quiet life!
[22:30] Miranda is talking about one standard for her - so that she's behaves how she would behave off line.
[22:31] Someone asked are Ethics social?
[22:31] Miranda said good question
[22:31] and howe about n-teraction with otherz?
[22:31] Peter says, "But who sets the standard?"
[22:31] Hmm. Thats an interesting question
[22:31] x-actly, who doez set that standard? repetition of behaviour must be moderated somehow, but howe???
[22:32] society and who or what is society?
[22:32] "standards" are negotiated not set
[22:32] * mez getz all ponderee
[22:32] Miranda is not saying that there should be one standard for everyone, but that she should have one personal standard on line and off line.
[22:33] ooh i think standards r set, juzt mebbe not thru legislation etc
[22:33] Someone asked how much Miranda has based her persona on Carmen Miranda on the character
[22:33] the online experience exemplifies a negotiated, malleable standard set
[22:33] We need to move on to the next speaker. Who is going to be Dylan Shan 0- The Body on line
[22:33] fair enuff miranda, i spose i'm juzt curiouz coz if every1 has that same ideer it coould get very n-teresting;)
[22:33] And Deleuze & quattari & quilts
[22:34] jamezb>>not alwaze in my x-perience, sometimez there r no negotiated spacez at all
[22:34] I'll be talkling about space a lot.
[22:34] It seems that D&Q have been mentioned a lot during the conference so far.
[22:35] There seems to be in cartography in the moment currently particupating in other fields
[22:35] * mez hands out her made 2 ordah D&G conference t-shirts
[22:35] :)
[22:35] Cartographic terms - use of.
[22:35] Peter says, " Is that the logo on the T shirt?"
[22:36] The methods and terms of cartography are being changed.
[22:36] what D&Q?
[22:36] * mez says the logo is obleke. wood u like 2 argue with it? itz n-teractive and rhizomatically coherent
[22:36] :)
[22:36] Sorry D & Q is a short term for Deleuze and Guattari
[22:36] I mis read the spelling sorry.
[22:37] D & G use quilts in their book.
[22:37] Distinctions between cultures and practes
[22:37]